Posted on 02/03/2024 8:50:08 AM PST by SunkenCiv
I've collected more ATSC 3.0 over the air television news. Unfortunately it's not great news: I learned that all ATSC 3 tuners will have certificates that will expire after a certain length of time and there's been very little progress towards getting gateway devices to work.
00:00 - Intro
00:59 - DRM Petition Update
02:23 - Tuner Expiration Dates
04:13 - All ATSC 3 Devices "Phone Home" For Decryption
04:48 - Zero Progress on Gateway Devices
05:44 - ATSC 3 statement
10:08 - Broadcaster Moving 4k to Streaming Only
11:07 - Could Cable Access Channels Use Unwanted Spectrum?
13:58 - ConclusionAll ATSC 3 TV Tuners will EXPIRE & More DRM News | 16:18
Lon.TV | 353K subscribers | 49,470 views | January 29, 2024
(Excerpt) Read more at youtube.com ...
Transcript · Intro 0:00 · hey everybody it's ly and over the last 0:02 · year or so we've been covering the 0:03 · transition of overthe a television 0:06 · signals from the atsc 1.0 standard to 0:09 · the 3.0 standard and one of the issues 0:12 · that we've been talking about here on 0:14 · the channel relates to the DRM the 0:17 · encryption that the broadcasters are 0:20 · putting on their signals to prevent 0:22 · people from retransmitting those signals 0:25 · and this has created a lot of 0:27 · inconvenience for people like myself who 0:30 · want to watch and record TV like I've 0:32 · been doing for the last 30 or 40 years 0:35 · in the privacy of my home and in this 0:37 · episode we're going to update you on 0:40 · what's been going on in this space 0:42 · unfortunately not much but we are 0:44 · learning some new things about the DRM 0:47 · including the fact that your device will 0:51 · expire at some point how long it will 0:54 · take until it expires we'll get to in 0:56 · just a second let's get to 0:58 · it now now let's start off though with · DRM Petition Update 1:01 · an update on where we are at with our 1:03 · petition to stop the DRM this is 1:06 · something that the antenna man and I 1:08 · have been working on we crossed over the 1:10 · 10,000 signature Mark recently on our 1:13 · way to 1:15 · 15,000 and what's great about this 1:17 · petition that we're hosting at 1:18 · change.org is that every time somebody 1:21 · signs it an email goes out to key 1:23 · stakeholders to let them know that we 1:26 · care about this issue so if you haven't 1:28 · signed it please do and if you have 1:31 · signed it please tell your friends to 1:33 · sign it because this is an important 1:35 · issue to keep in front of the FCC as 1:38 · this process continues speaking of the 1:41 · FCC the number of filings on the docket 1:44 · for the atsc3 transition have crossed 1:48 · 4,000 most of these now are consumers 1:52 · writing in to express their displeasure 1:55 · over broadcast signals getting encrypted 1:58 · over public Airway 2:00 · so definitely uh fill out a complaint if 2:03 · you haven't already you can see that in 2:05 · the link you see on screen and as things 2:08 · develop here if I'm not seeing 2:09 · sufficient progress there's a couple of 2:11 · other things that we can do so stay 2:14 · tuned get your keyboard fingers ready 2:16 · because we'll probably have more filings 2:17 · to make in the near future but we're 2:20 · going to hold off on that at least for 2:22 · now so let's begin with this expiration · Tuner Expiration Dates 2:25 · issue I learned this week that there 2:27 · will be a fixed exper ation date for the 2:31 · atsc 3.0 DRM certificates that live on 2:36 · these devices in other words when a 2:39 · tuner goes out to pick up an encrypted 2:42 · signal there's a validation to ensure 2:44 · that the certificate is valid and that 2:46 · device is allowed to decrypt the signal 2:48 · those certificates will expire after a 2:51 · certain length of time I did pull the 2:54 · certificate out of my adth box by 2:57 · monitoring Network traffic and I learned 3:00 · that its certificate expires in 30 years 3:04 · the zapper box after reaching out to 3:05 · them also has a 30 year certificate so 3:08 · that's certainly a good long time I 3:10 · think it's probably going to be longer 3:11 · than the atsc one standard will have 3:14 · lasted for once we transition but 3:16 · nonetheless every box will have a fixed 3:18 · date in which it essentially stops 3:20 · working at least for encrypted content 3:23 · now as I was recording this video I did 3:25 · get some information in from the atsc 3:27 · you'll see another statement from them 3:28 · in a few minutes they did say that the 3:31 · minimum certificate length is 10 years 3:33 · they have a 10 year a 15 a 20 and a 30 3:36 · and the pricing varies based on the 3:38 · volume of the product the intended sales 3:41 · of it along with the duration so some 3:43 · may choose the shorter length 3:45 · certificates if it makes Financial sense 3:47 · to do so now one thing to keep in mind 3:49 · here is that in my home I've got an HD 3:52 · home run Prime that I've been using to 3:54 · watch my cable TV stuff with that was 3:57 · one of my first videos I did as a pro 3:58 · YouTuber if you will will and that box 4:01 · is now over 10 years old and still in 4:04 · service so although people may upgrade 4:06 · their TVs in shorter durations some of 4:09 · these products may actually exist in the 4:11 · home longer than a decade another thing · All ATSC 3 Devices "Phone Home" For Decryption 4:13 · that I learned this week and was also 4:15 · backed up by sniffing Network traffic is 4:17 · that at the moment atsc3 devices are 4:21 · always phoning home if there's an 4:23 · Internet connection available when they 4:25 · go to tune an encrypted Channel this 4:27 · includes TVs that don't need an internet 4:30 · connection to watch TV I've heard from 4:33 · people who have been monitoring traffic 4:35 · who have seen this exchange of 4:37 · certificates over the Internet versus 4:40 · over the air so if the internet 4:42 · connection is there there will be some 4:43 · kind of connection back to the 4:46 · broadcaster servers for validation now · Zero Progress on Gateway Devices 4:49 · this next bit of news unfortunately is 4:51 · that we don't have a lot of news on the 4:52 · status of DRM for Gateway devices what 4:56 · is a gateway device well a Gateway 4:58 · device is something like the the Tableau 5:00 · or the HD home run where you've got a 5:02 · box that you plug your antenna into and 5:05 · then that puts the TV signal out onto 5:08 · your network so you can pick up your 5:10 · phone and watch TV your laptop your 5:12 · smart television your TV box whatever 5:14 · you've got with a screen you can watch 5:16 · TV on and these devices have proven to 5:18 · be very popular with consumers because 5:21 · they largely replicate the experiences 5:23 · they have with their streaming services 5:26 · and what's been great about atsc 1.0 is 5:28 · that there were no restrictions on using 5:31 · a Gateway device in fact the Tableau is 5:34 · owned by scripts a broadcaster and they 5:37 · could not make an atsc3 product right 5:39 · now because there's no way to make it 5:41 · work due to the encryption so what's · ATSC 3 statement 5:44 · going on here well the makers of the HD 5:47 · home run in fact the CEO of the company 5:50 · Nick Kelce uh put up a lengthy explainer 5:53 · on their forums the other day about the 5:55 · status of everything so let's begin by 5:58 · looking at Apple TV iPad iPhones and 6:02 · Macs right now because they are using 6:05 · Google widevine DRM for atsc3 encryption 6:10 · you're not able to currently watch 6:13 · encrypted content on Apple devices and 6:16 · of course Apple's always touting how 6:17 · secure they are but apparently not 6:19 · secure enough for broadcasters right now 6:22 · so those are out another thing that's 6:25 · happening is that Roku TVs and Roku 6:28 · streaming boxes are also not compatible 6:31 · due to this Google wide Vine issue and 6:34 · there's also some other issues that the 6:36 · folks at silicondust the makers of the 6:38 · HD home run are seeing related to 6:41 · installable apps on roku's tuning into 6:44 · this protected content so we haven't 6:47 · made any progress there although there 6:49 · are apparently ways in which a Roku TV 6:53 · that has an atsc3 tuner could tune to 6:55 · that content live but of course not 6:58 · through an app uh similar story here 7:00 · unfortunately with Xbox and Windows 10 7:03 · and 11 if you remember the Xbox was 7:06 · actually one of the first devices that 7:07 · could tune encrypted cable content on 7:10 · the HD home run Prime which was a cable 7:13 · card device but right now it cannot do 7:17 · atsc 3 either LG TVs along with Samsung 7:21 · TVs are out at least in so far as 7:24 · Gateway product usage there are no apps 7:26 · that can run on the LG TVs that will 7:29 · work with a Gateway product and the only 7:31 · thing that kind of does work right now 7:33 · is Android and if you look at the two 7:36 · boxes that are currently out there the 7:37 · adth box and the zapper box both of 7:40 · those run Android in the background 7:42 · because it's Google and Google has the 7:44 · wide Vine encryption there uh that is 7:47 · why we're seeing Android primarily on 7:50 · this current crop of boxes but it's 7:53 · still not possible to use an Android 7:56 · device as a Gateway client 8:00 · because there are requirements that are 8:02 · draft or incomplete still at this time 8:05 · and we're looking at I think at least a 8:06 · year since they started encrypting so 8:09 · they really had no plan for rolling this 8:11 · out if they had one all of this stuff 8:14 · wouldn't be in flux right now but that's 8:16 · where things are at and I'm not very 8:18 · optimistic that things are going to get 8:20 · better all of this is kind of running 8:23 · contrary to the broadcast and coding 8:25 · rules that the a3s which is the armor 8:28 · the broadcast Masters responsible for 8:31 · encrypting the content uh said would be 8:34 · followed in regards to all this stuff 8:36 · they've got a lot of great bullets here 8:37 · about what viewers will be able to do 8:40 · but unfortunately none of the devices 8:42 · that viewers have will actually work in 8:44 · a way in which they can do these things 8:47 · so that is where it is at unfortunately 8:50 · zero progress on Gateway development 8:54 · here and again I'm not optimistic that 8:55 · we're ever going to see it work now In 8:58 · fairness I did Reach Out to the atsc and 9:00 · they did provide me this statement on 9:02 · the status of all of these things they 9:06 · said the a3s remember they're the group 9:08 · that organizes the encryption part of 9:11 · this standard and its member 9:13 · broadcasters want to maximize the 9:14 · footprint of atsc3 services and so their 9:17 · goal is to enable playback of encoded 9:19 · content on a range of devices including 9:21 · Apple TV Roku Windows Xbox Samsung LG 9:23 · and similar devices they do say that the 9:26 · current specs in pre-released draft form 9:29 · are expected to work on Samsung and LG 9:31 · devices as is or with only a minor 9:34 · modification in addition they are 9:36 · working with an accessory manufacturer 9:38 · to develop a prototype implementation of 9:40 · a3s that works on Roku based devices 9:43 · which we can expect to add to our 9:45 · specifications as soon as we can adding 9:47 · support for all of these platforms is a 9:49 · high priority on our near-term road map 9:52 · and my concern here is just that they're 9:54 · kind of controlling the market aren't 9:56 · they in that they're picking and 9:57 · choosing who gets to i' run these 9:59 · prototypes and get everything working 10:01 · first whereas I think it would be better 10:03 · to have the market just kind of work 10:05 · itself out as it did on the atsc 1.0 · Broadcaster Moving 4k to Streaming Only 10:08 · standard now zapper boox posted up 10:10 · something interesting on their upcoming 10:12 · feature road map in version 2.4 they've 10:16 · got this new feature called Broadband 10:19 · channels now get this the broadcasters 10:21 · will be pinging out URLs for streaming 10:26 · video and so what happens is your box 10:29 · will pick up the URL over the air and 10:32 · then tune to the channel over the 10:34 · internet and what zapper boox is saying 10:36 · here is that this is probably how 10:38 · broadcasters will be Distributing 4K 10:41 · content they will not be broadcasting it 10:44 · because it uses up so much bandwidth on 10:46 · the signal so they'll instead send you a 10:48 · URL and your box will tune to it over 10:51 · the internet I'm beginning to wonder if 10:54 · we even need them to be broadcasting 10:56 · over the air with those public Airwaves 10:58 · any long longer might there be a better 11:01 · use for those public Airwaves and there 11:03 · might be if they do want to roll back 11:06 · their use of them uh one area that I've · Could Cable Access Channels Use Unwanted Spectrum? 11:09 · been working on here in my home state of 11:11 · Connecticut is trying to figure out a 11:13 · path forward for cable access channels 11:16 · and these of course are your Public 11:18 · Access public TV channels that have been 11:20 · around since cable TV came around and 11:23 · they created these channels because 11:25 · cable companies were initially granted a 11:27 · monopoly some still one to put wires up 11:30 · on the poles and kind of be the only 11:32 · game in town in exchange for that they 11:34 · had to do some things for the community 11:36 · one of them was giving the community 11:37 · access to sending out their own TV 11:40 · signals on their wire and they did that 11:43 · through creating Cable Television 11:45 · Studios here in my home state of 11:46 · Connecticut there's still some 11:48 · regulation on the books that requires 11:49 · cable TV providers to do this the 11:52 · problem though is that cable TV uh 11:55 · customers are dropping the cable side of 11:58 · their subscriptions and keeping the 12:00 · internet and what's happened now is the 12:02 · money that cable companies were required 12:04 · to fund these stations with is going 12:07 · away because when people cut the cable 12:09 · service that requirement is cut as well 12:11 · because the internet side of the 12:13 · business is not regulated in the same 12:15 · way even though it's on the same wire so 12:17 · I have been involved uh locally here in 12:19 · Connecticut uh trying to help a a bunch 12:22 · of regulators and the elected officials 12:24 · and everyone else involved find a 12:26 · solution to this problem and you can 12:28 · read more about it on this docket that's 12:31 · up on the regulator's website but I 12:33 · wonder if uh broadcasters don't need the 12:35 · signals any longer perhaps we can find a 12:38 · better use for them that would still 12:40 · serve the public good by maybe giving a 12:43 · new lease on life to local access 12:45 · television give them the ability to 12:47 · broadcast over the air in addition to 12:49 · streaming and it could be a big win for 12:52 · everyone this by the way was how I got 12:54 · my start in media production when I was 12:57 · 13 years old you can actually see one of 12:58 · my my episodes from 1990 uh up on the 13:01 · link you see on screen here I had a 13:03 · cable access show this was the start of 13:05 · all of it for me in fact when I I 13:07 · started my little TV show was about 13:08 · video games and had I stuck with that 13:10 · topic for that long I probably would be 13:12 · uh doing more than working out of my 13:14 · basement right now but it's still an 13:16 · invaluable resource I think not only for 13:17 · kids looking to get into media 13:20 · production and developing media literacy 13:22 · it's also important for communities to 13:24 · have this access and one of the things 13:27 · that I've been noticing in the course of 13:29 · helping to contribute to this issue in 13:31 · my state is that the algorithms from 13:35 · YouTube and Twitter and everybody else 13:36 · don't seem to promote these local uh 13:39 · content sources because they don't 13:41 · generate a lot of traffic even though 13:43 · there is an audience for them so this is 13:45 · an area that I think needs some 13:47 · attention it might be a better way to 13:49 · make use of the public Airwaves in the 13:51 · future if clearly broadcasters are not 13:54 · as interested in using those signals for 13:57 · the public benefit any longer so we've · Conclusion 14:00 · got more to come on this but I just 14:02 · wanted to put this out there I would 14:03 · love to hear about what's happening with 14:05 · cable access in your state because every 14:07 · state is different but I would imagine 14:09 · other uh cable access channels 14:10 · throughout the country here in the US 14:12 · are dealing with the same things and so 14:14 · that's going to do it for this one uh 14:16 · unfortunately we don't have much news 14:18 · here because not much has happened the 14:19 · FCC still hasn't said anything about 14:22 · what they plan to do on encryption and 14:24 · because this transition is not due now 14:26 · to take place until 2027 my guess is 14:29 · they are punting it to the next 14:32 · Administration so I think this 14:33 · presidential election will be 14:35 · consequential as to what happens with 14:37 · broadcast TV rolling forward the 14:40 · broadcasters really believe that this 14:42 · encryption is important for preserving 14:44 · their business model you and I know that 14:46 · it's actually going to do the opposite 14:48 · to their business model because less of 14:50 · us will want to tune in to over the air 14:52 · TV if we can't watch and record it the 14:54 · way we want but they are in that mode 14:57 · here they're not budget off of it so the 14:59 · only way they're going to change their 15:01 · mind on this is for the regulator to 15:03 · tell them to and so that's why I think 15:06 · when we get into uh the next election 15:08 · this will be an important issue for us 15:10 · to keep track of that's going to do it 15:12 · for now until next time this is lon 15:13 · sibin thanks for watching this channel 15:15 · is brought to you by the lon.tv 15:17 · supporters including gold level 15:19 · supporters Brian 15:22 · Parker 15:26 · budley hot sauce and video game 15:30 · games Steve 15:34 · green and omda 15:36 · brown if you want to help the channel 15:38 · you can by contributing as little as a 15:40 · dollar a 15:50 · month head over to lon.tv support to 15:54 · learn 15:57 · more 16:12 · and don't forget to subscribe visit 16:14 · lon.tv 16:17 · SLS
The gubmint-directed footshooting continues.
if they make tv too burdensome, perhaps people will simply turn it off and actually have a life.
Are we saying here that all the over-the-air current digital broadcasts are just temporary and due to expire in short time ? aka Channels 2 thru 65 with an antenna TV, antenna on the roof, etc ?
Does this correlate with the need every few months to ‘run a scan’ in your digital TV to update the channel assignments and allotments ?
Did the FCC authorize all this stuff to expire in short time and thus DAMN the population and citizens from the traditional over-the-air eternal TV systems ?
If we end up with significant infrastructure damage due to WW3 or civil war, will our airwaves STOP providing broadcast TV over-the-air. Who cares if cable or satellite is knocked-out, will the broadcast airwaves be severed ?
They’ve been pushing OTA channels for a few months now. My guess is the new receivers are just another way for CCP.GOV to get into our homes.
^ Digital OTA that is ^
Talking about emergency broadcast system working in wartime. I know that analog TV was totally independent of channel re-alignment crap. This digital implementation may cripple the airwaves.
That’s exactly what I did in April of 1997. The problem is, culturally and politically I’m completely out of touch with this country because I am no longer getting the group think instructions everybody else is.
Evil stupid democrat control freaks are doing this...
Thanks for the transcript … I never follow links to YT ‘cause there’s no time to watch long vids.
I’m of two minds here. On one hand it’s important to have more means of communication that aren’t locked into the internet.
On the other, ATSC3 isn’t that. From the beginning it was designed to use and need an internet connection both for authentication and for viewer tracking, neither of which are goals consistent with freedom.
Also, with content of people’s choice available, like this or YT or Rumble and streaming whatever, the era of “programming” where content occurs on a set schedule to be viewed at the times and order of TV producers’ direction is done.
Sure it was a shared culture of a sort in that people could talk about their Sunday or Tuesday shows but only an artificial one driven by consumerism and the overt and covert agenda of a few.
ASTC 3 is not expiring. It is the NEW standard allowing 4k HDR, Dolby Atmos and interactive features.
My pleasure.
“They’ve been pushing OTA channels for a few months now. “
OTA TV has been digital for years!
” This digital implementation may cripple the airwaves.”
We have been fully digital since 2009.
“On the other, ATSC3 isn’t that. From the beginning it was designed to use and need an internet connection both for authentication and for viewer tracking, neither of which are goals consistent with freedom.”
Internet is not required to receive ATSC 3 OTA.
I vehemently lobbied for then, and I still think it's the right choice today, for Europe's DVB-T format over the ATSC format.
Alas, I am now out of broadcasting, and ATSC still sucks.
“Does this correlate with the need every few months to ‘run a scan’ in your digital TV to update the channel assignments and allotments ?”
ATSC 3 tuners automatically scan and identify the channels.
“Are we saying here that all the over-the-air current digital broadcasts are just temporary and due to expire in short time ? “
This is not a mandated switch. Many new TV’s today already have ATSC 3 tuners. Stations switching to 3.0 will have to maintain current 1.0 till 2027.
“aka Channels 2 thru 65 with an antenna TV, antenna on the roof, etc ?”
The highest channel is 38.
“Talking about emergency broadcast system working in wartime.”
This will improve the OTA EBS.
“I know that analog TV was totally independent of channel re-alignment crap.”
Digital TV (ATSC 1.0) allowed multiple broadcasts on one channel thus freeing up higher frequencies for other uses like cellphones. To come will be channels that will support independents.
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