Posted on 10/05/2023 5:43:13 PM PDT by gnarledmaw
The reason the older stuff seems to be found further south is probably because of the meteor(s) disaster in upper North America around 13,000 years ago.
Sunken Civ can post reference to a book about this still largely unrecognized answer to such questions as, why were so many of the large fauna gone so quickly around that time. Also why did Clovis end so quikly, etc.
I hadn’t thought of the similarity between my idea and punctuated equilibrium. Your mention of “many mutations” reminds me of an argument against a natural origin of Covid-19.
I didn’t know about the “hopeful monster” theory.
I did know that “day” in Hebrew could mean a long period of time. And in this connection I would quote the Bible: “one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day”.
Your pastor’s thoughts mirror mine: God COULD have created the world in just 1 week, but done so in such a way that no matter what tests we did, we would think it had taken billions of years. But I hadn’t thought of the analogy of Adam being created as a “ full-grown mature adult”.
Thanks for posting this-it is always fun to see the theories of how the stupid humans had to travel on land after the ice melted because they couldn’t figure out how to build a raft to go by water to a new-maybe warmer-place. What part of “the global sea level was about 400 feet lower” are they missing? And why is it that there is DNA from people we now call Polynesian and African, found in even the oldest human remains found in the coastal areas of Chile, Argentina, etc? Or more Caucasian DNA in some the oldest remains of Paleo-Indians in Canada and the East/Southeastern states in the US, while those from Alaska, Northern Canada and the more western part of the US have Asian/Eurasian DNA?
All those people did not come from just one place, or in a short timespan, and they certainly didn’t all decide to rush across an ice free land bridge from what is now Siberia 14-15,000 years ago-that just doesn’t even make sense...
There was a perfectly good ocean to put rafts in that was really shallow near the coasts-just stay close in and go till you like what you see or you get blown ashore. Europe wasn’t that far from Canada with a low ocean-and Africa closer to S America than now. We’ve been here for a long, long while...
My cousin’s husband who was an archaeologist believed that people had been coming here by sea and land for at least 30-40,000 years, based on the things being found that showed this was the case-I’m glad to see real acceptance of his theories-it is too bad he is no longer here to see this-MS took him about 30 years ago...
Yep. Why would the pandemic keep them from going to a desert?
Weren’t the Vikings here first?
Yeah the old Bearing Strait story I got told in school.
Never bought it. I didn’t think Pluto was a planet either.
I didn’t know about the Mousterian stone tools. I see that they were mainly in Europe - and predated Solutrean/Clovis, which is what I find significant in the current context.
Interesting map. The predominance of Clovis on the eastern side of North America suggests that it originated there and then spread to the rest of the continent.
You are entitled to your opinion-as are we all. I believe The Intelligent Designer-God-does things logically and in His own time-it is His universe, after all-we just live here because He made it so we can. He did it very carefully, likely taking all the time that the archaeological evidence shows us-religious philosophers from all over the world have always said “What is a year in the eye of God?”
History is “recorded” in tools, human, plant and animal remains, structures made by humans as well as the modifications for occupancy they made in caves, caverns, other natural structures, etc. Even written/recorded history is more than 6-7000 years old-we just can’t read all the languages represented in the stone carvings/paintings yet-but we are finding each one’s “Rosetta stone”. We do not know the mind of God, nor are we ever likely to...
Monte Verde is in Chile, so when Tom Dillehay started reporting on the age of the stuff he was finding, there was a great deal of controversy, because it would have meant the Bering Strait Pedestrians would have had to have sprinted there to fit into the generally accepted time scale for humans in North and South America. I had read in an interview that he found stuff that he believed was much older, but he did not push it because of the struggle he had had just to get recognition for his initial findings.
Yes, I have heard of the Solutrean hypothesis. When I first heard of it, I really liked it, as it raised the possibility that Europeans were the first people in the Americas, the true “first nation” - which would have important political implications. But the evidence seemed to be against that - as you indicated.
However, with another poster’s mention of Mousterian stone tools (#30), that does become a possibility.
I was shocked when I first learned about how many Clovis finds there were in the eastern half of the U.S. I just associated Clovis with the original New Mexico find and the western part of the country.
There is a theory that people could have crossed the Atlantic simply by hunting and living on the sea ice, much like Inuit have done in the past. They just gradually worked their way across the ocean, rather than a bunch of people jumping into boats and crossing over in one move.
Prince Madoc. Had he coughed harder this country would have been depopulated by De Leon’s landing...
I recall seeing documentaries on fish and antelope which would seem to indicate “self-awareness”, but maybe it was just instinct or learning.
The land bridge to Asia was available from ~30,000 YA to ~10,000 YA. There have been no boats yet found of that antiquity so we presume the migration from Asia couldn’t have happened without that land bridge.
Also, there was no blood group B among the first Americans. The original South and Meso American Indians were all type O. The original North American Indians were either O or A. These facts have fueled the hypothesis that the migrations came in two small but separate and closely-related groups.
There have been human remains found in the nether reaches of South America that still bore Asiatic features and were carbon dated to too soon after the presumed +/-15,000 YA Bering Strait crossing hypothesis for them to have migrated the necessary 8,000+ miles from the crossing point. In other words, there is archaeology to support the hypothesis that humans were in the Americas well before 15,000 YA.
As for the slow rate of development of primitive man, no great civilization can exist without a cereal grain and domesticated meat-producing livestock. Cereal grains because it is the technologically simplest form of food that can be stored for years and still be consumable, and meat livestock because they convert cellulose into a concentrated source of calories that humans can digest. But there were no cereal grains until primitive man discovered natural mutations of seeded grasses.
Somewhere in Southwest Asia, a wheat grass naturally crossed with a goat grass, resulting in a fertile hybrid with a large head full of seeds known today as emmer wheat. Humans began domesticating emmer in about 8000 BC. The domesticated emmer crossed naturally again with another variety of wild goat grass, producing another fertile hybrid, bread wheat. Which gave man the first cereal grain crop, which was the beginning of agriculture. It also gave them a vital building block necessary to the creation of cities and civilization.
And that’s why human development was so slow for most of 200,000 years (NOT 3 MILLION) since H. Sapiens arose. Because nomadic tribesmen, people whose life needs are met day-to-day, don’t see much need for innovation. Farmers who cultivate the same plot of land year in and year out do.
Real intellectual progress was only possible once a there was means for thousands of people to live together in a common community where people could specialize in different roles. And all of that specialization starts with farmers raising cereal grains and livestock, producing far in excess of their own needs, so that not everyone has to spend their days seeing to it that their belly gets filled.
“But were they what we might call Giants ?”
Navajo legends might say that.
“I see that they were mainly in Europe - and predated Solutrean/Clovis, which is what I find significant in the current context.”
I apprenticed under my Grandmother who was a renown Archaeologist and Anthropologist. Her colleges are all friends of mine because I was a persistent tag along. When I found one of the Mousterian tools I shared with them all and asked them where they came from. They told me the same thing you just did, and which I already knew. I asked if they were authentic for the period and they said yes. Then I told them I found them just down the road at the dry lake 30 miles away.
Since I have found two more. I found them all along the ancient shore line of Lake Manix where the early man dig is located. My finds back up Leakey’s assumptions. In fact they would be much older than the Calico finds. But what good it does, they don’t fit the narrative so even those who first authenticated them will not back them up as the real deal anymore. They know they are, they just won’t admit it.
“They know they are, they just won’t admit it.”
The first geologist that theorized that the eastern Washington state scablands were carved out by rapid and huge floods was ridiculed. One of the points of contention was were did all of the water that would have been needed come from?
A US Geologic Survey geologist figured out where all of the water came from. But he waited years and years until he retired to tell anyone (ancient Lake Missoula).
Just driving down the highway through Missoula in the early morning with the shadows the various levels of the lake on the hillsides is obvious once you know what you are looking at.
The lake would dam up with ice, fill with water until there was enough pressure to break the ice dam. Rinse and repeat numerous times. (dozens??)
“The lake would dam up with ice, fill with water until there was enough pressure to break the ice dam. Rinse and repeat numerous times.”
There are a lot of cases where a genius who thinks they know everything never thinks outside the box. Or never rethinks something. They “just know” and discredit others to sell their own book. Except in many many circumstances there are unknown or unforeseen variables and/or influences. Sometimes several variables working together that are never even considered.
Such as your ice dam example. He was discredited because he hit a closed minded firewall. And the one who figured it out had to go into a prudent self defense mode to keep his job. :)
Very interesting and persuasive post. My hypothesis was that it was the desertification of the Sahara which forced the people living there to migrate to the Nile, thereby creating the “critical mass” of population which you allude to. But that didn’t explain the Mesopotamia civilization, the Indus civilization, or the civilizations of the Far East and central/southern America, and other interests and consequent lack of time resulted in me not investigating that.
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