Posted on 09/03/2023 6:41:06 AM PDT by patriot torch
Missionary Evangelist Robert Breaker talks about the Rapture, and how it's BEFORE the tribulation.
Quote:
“..so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain.
There’s your answer.”
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Which relates to those left behind because they were not AT THE TIME OF THE RAPTURE Born Again. But converted to Christianity AFTER the Rapture for a very large harvest of souls who were then beheaded for their Testimony of the Lord Jesus Christ and received salvation through the Blood of the slain Lamb.
A number that John wrote unable to be counted.
Yes that is the popular interpretation. Those converted after the rapture. But it is only an interpretation. In any event, it makes little difference. Salvation doesn’t depend on it.
Another example of the Rapture is Noah and the flood.
God sent a flood (a shadow and type of wrath to come) Yet Noah and his family were raised by the Water (water signifies a cleansing by the Word) through Faith believing. Only Noah and his family were “caught up”. This represents a remnant.
Those who denounce God’s ability to raise BOTH the dead and THE REMAINiNG are walking by sight based on science and NOT the Word of God.
2 Corinthians 5:6-8
King James Version
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
That’s right
See, I made that my tagline.
Quote:
“there is no rapture and the Bible is very clear about that. everyone will go through the tribulation.”
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Perhaps you might want to take that up with God.
Mark 10:27
King James Version
27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
There's your answer.
Rev 13:15 which you cite is pretty inclusive but the net comes up empty if the church is no longer on earth.
Nothing in Rev 13 locates the church on earth but much between Rev 4 - Rev 19 describes a persecuted religious body which on close inspection is different from the present church yet whose believers, most of who will be martyred between Rev 4-Rev 19 are saved.
Where the present church relies on belief in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus for salvation, this body of believers during the tribulation relies on a similar yet different gospel partly described in Rev 14.
Rev 14:6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people—
Rev 14:7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”
Who is the source of the Tribulation and what is its point? I would argue God is the source, the party starts when Jesus starts breaking the seven seals. I believe the point is to punish the wicked and to reconcile Israel with God. If that's the case, where does the Church fit into that agenda? If Jesus' sacrifice was sufficient, how are we targets of God's wrath? If the Church is still on earth, what is the need for the 144,000?
I don't believe in the Rapture as a way of escaping. The worst that can happen to me during the Tribulation is that I might die horribly, but I could die horribly today, so escapism isn't what motivates my belief. I believe in the Rapture because in the instances where God delivers divine wrath on the earth - Noah and Lot - he gets his people out of the way. He discriminates. And then there are the numerous bible verses the sure seem to allude to a rapture occurring.
Are you a Jewish male virgin? I'm not so I cannot receive such seal. And they are harmed, every one of them in short order. That's why they are in heaven by Rev 15:1-5.
Rev 14:1 Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads.Rev 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps.
Rev 14:3 They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth.
Rev 14:4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.
Rev 14:5 And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God.
quote:
“there is no rapture and the Bible is very clear about that. everyone will go through the tribulation.”
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So, based on YOUR theory, explain THIS:
Acts 8:27-39
King James Version
27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
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39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
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Other than the second chapter, actual epistles from Jesus crucial to understanding how He looks at things, what difference does it make, ideological or otherwise?
“I am a better Christian than you” may not be as important as the question, “Are you a Christian?” An affirmative answer to the later, as I understand it, suffices.
Am I a Christian? In the words of Jesus “he that is not against us is for us”. Are you St. Peter, checking immigration status of those entering?
Very true and scripture says who and how many he will mark: 144,000 Jewish, male virgins.
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:Rev 7:5 of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed;
Rev 7:6 of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed;
Rev 7:7 of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed;
Rev 7:8 of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.
It might be interesting to remember that since the beginning the majority has never been on the side of ‘right’ ... Breakers style is ignoring 99.9% of the Word to sell a fairy tale/tail.
quote:
“It might be interesting to remember that since the beginning the majority has never been on the side of ‘right’ ... Breakers style is ignoring 99.9% of the Word to sell a fairy tale/tail.”
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Please expound on that.
Very well then I guess I’m dog meat having missed at least one of those requirements.
Obviously the 'key of David' is lost on you. There are 12 tribes of Israel ... Notice way back in Genesis what is Written:
Genesis 49:1 1 And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.
2 Gather yourselves together, and hear, ye sons of Jacob; and hearken unto Israel your father. 3 Reuben, thou art my firstborn, my might, and the beginning of my strength, the excellency of dignity, and the excellency of power: 4 Unstable as water, thou shalt not excel; because thou wentest up to thy father's bed; then defiledst thou it: he went up to my couch. 5 Simeon and Levi are brethren; instruments of cruelty are in their habitations. 6 O my soul, come not thou into their secret; unto their assembly, mine honour, be not thou united: for in their anger they slew a man, and in their selfwill they digged down a wall. 7 Cursed be their anger, for it was fierce; and their wrath, for it was cruel: I will divide them in Jacob, and scatter them in Israel. 8 Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee. 9 Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up? 10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be. 11 Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes: 12 His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk. 13 Zebulun shall dwell at the haven of the sea; and he shall be for an haven of ships; and his border shall be unto Zidon. 14 Issachar is a strong ass couching down between two burdens: 15 And he saw that rest was good, and the land that it was pleasant; and bowed his shoulder to bear, and became a servant unto tribute. 16 Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel. 17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward. 18 I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD. 19 Gad, a troop shall overcome him: but he shall overcome at the last. 20 Out of Asher his bread shall be fat, and he shall yield royal dainties. 21 Naphtali is a hind let loose: he giveth goodly words. 22 Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall: 23 The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him: 24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel:) 25 Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb: 26 The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren. 27 Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil. 28 All these are the twelve tribes of Israel: and this is it that their father spake unto them, and blessed them; every one according to his blessing he blessed them. 29 And he charged them, and said unto them, I am to be gathered unto my people: bury me with my fathers in the cave that is in the field of Ephron the Hittite, 30 In the cave that is in the field of Machpelah, which is before Mamre, in the land of Canaan, which Abraham bought with the field of Ephron the Hittite for a possession of a buryingplace. 31 There they buried Abraham and Sarah his wife; there they buried Isaac and Rebekah his wife; and there I buried Leah. 32 The purchase of the field and of the cave that is therein was from the children of Heth. 33 And when Jacob had made an end of commanding his sons, he gathered up his feet into the bed, and yielded up the ghost, and was gathered unto his people.
Study to show thy self appeove!
1 Thessalonians 4:14
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again (the very Foundation of Christianity is the Death and Resurrection of Christ; it is the proof of life after death in a glorified state for all Saints in that life, which incidentally will never end), even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him. (this refers to the Rapture of the Church, or the Resurrection of all Believers, with both phrases meaning the same thing, even as Paul describes in 1 Cor., Chpt. 15. At death, the soul and the spirit of the Child of God instantly go to be with Jesus [Phil. 1:23], while the physical body goes back to dust. At the Rapture, God will replace what was the physical body with a Glorified Body, United with the soul and the spirit. In fact, the soul and the spirit of each individual will accompany the Lord down close to this Earth to be united with a Glorified Body, which will then make the Believer whole. *
*JSM study Bible
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