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To: BroJoeK; ProgressingAmerica; Renfrew; wardaddy; Pelham; DiogenesLamp; central_va
The Vermont Republic was never formally recognized by any foreign government, and only ever discussed with Brits terms and conditions for becoming a province of Canada!

The fact remains that Vermont began to abolish slavery in its first constitution of 1777.

[...]

Vermont was even more of a fake country than the Confederacy.

The gentle reader may believe an internet idiot or a unanimous United States Supreme Court. Whatever Britain and Canada have to do with a successful revolution by Vermont in 1777 is a mystery. Vermont was recognized as an independent state with self-appointed borders. It did not join the Union under the procedures for a territory. Vermont had a State constitution in 1777. It joined the Union in 1791 as an independent state.

Page 289 U.S. 607

Vermont v. New Hampshire, 289 U.S. 593, 607-608 (1933)

At 606-607

Our conclusion as to the meaning and effect of the Order-in-Council of 1764 would be decisive of the boundary of Vermont upon her admission to the Union were it not for the history of Vermont as a revolutionary government and the consequent uncertainty whether she was admitted under the second clause of Art. IV, § 3, of the Constitution as a new state formed out of the territory of New York, with her boundary accordingly determined by that of New York, or whether she was admitted under the first clause of Art. IV, § 3, as an independent revolutionary state with self-constituted boundaries.

The Special Master found that attempts by the New York authorities after 1764 to interfere with the possession of the holders of the New Hampshire grants made prior to the Order-in-Council led to protest and forcible resistance which assumed the proportions of a revolutionary movement. This movement culminated in 1777 in the Declaration of Independence by the towns comprising the New Hampshire grants on both sides of the Green Mountains, which proclaimed that the jurisdiction granted by the Crown "to New York government over the people of the New Hampshire Grants is totally dissolved," and that a free and independent government is set up within the territory now Vermont, bounded "east on Connecticut River . . . as far as the New Hampshire Grants extends." From that time until the admission of Vermont into the Union in 1791, an independent government was maintained with defined geographical limits extending on the east to the Connecticut River. In view of these facts, the Special Master concluded that the Order-in-Council was nullified by successful revolution, and Vermont was admitted as an independent state with self-constituted boundaries. But he also found, as we have said, that Vermont's claims of jurisdiction to the thread of the river were restricted to the low water mark on the western side by resolutions of Congress of August 20, 21, 1781, and their acceptance by resolution of the Vermont Legislature, February 22, 1782. In addition, he found that Vermont was not recognized as an independent state by Congress either under the Articles of Confederation or under the Constitution, but that her independence was recognized by New Hampshire in 1777, by Massachusetts in 1781, and by New York in 1790.

[...]

New York, by Commissioners acting under a resolution of her legislature of March 6, 1790, gave formal consent to the admission of Vermont into the Union, and if Vermont was admitted as a state carved out of the territory of New York her boundaries on the east were those of New York, as fixed by the Order-in-Council. If admitted as a free and independent state her boundaries were those fixed by her own declaration of independence as limited by her acceptance of the conditions of the Congressional resolution of August 20, 21, 1781. That boundary we conclude was also one carrying to the river and to low-water mark.

At 611:

On April 17, 1782, a committee of Congress to which the matter had been submitted reported that the Congressional resolutions of the 20th and 21st of August had been fully complied with, and recommended that the territory of Vermont as defined in these resolutions be recognized and admitted to the Union, as a free and independent state.

But action by Congress was postponed and no further progress was made towards the admission of Vermont until July 16, 1789, when the New York legislature passed an act; reaffirmed March 6, 1790, authorizing the appointment of commissioners with power to declare, upon such terms as they might think proper, the consent of New York to her admission.

[...]

In 1791 the matter of admission was again presented to Congress by commissioners selected for the purpose under resolution of the Vermont legislature of January 20, 1791, and the admission of Vermont followed by Act of Congress of February 18, 1791.

At 619-620:

We conclude that the true boundary is at the low-water mark on the western side of the Connecticut River, as the special master has found. We adopt his definition of low-water mark, which is not challenged here, as the line drawn at the point to which the river recedes at its lowest stage without reference to extreme droughts.

102 posted on 08/13/2023 1:30:53 PM PDT by woodpusher
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To: woodpusher; x; ProgressingAmerica; Renfrew; wardaddy; Pelham; DiogenesLamp; central_va
woodpusher: "The gentle reader may believe an internet idiot or a unanimous United States Supreme Court.
Whatever Britain and Canada have to do with a successful revolution by Vermont in 1777 is a mystery.
Vermont was recognized as an independent state with self-appointed borders.
It did not join the Union under the procedures for a territory.
Vermont had a State constitution in 1777.
It joined the Union in 1791 as an independent state."

The facts remain as I stated -- no foreign country ever formally recognized Vermont as an independent country, or signed a treaty with Vermont or exchanged ambassadors.
So Vermont was even more of a fake country than the Confederacy.

woodpusher: "In addition, he found that Vermont was not recognized as an independent state by Congress either under the Articles of Confederation or under the Constitution, but that her independence was recognized by New Hampshire in 1777, by Massachusetts in 1781, and by New York in 1790."

So the facts remain as I stated -- no foreign country ever formally recognized Vermont as an independent country, or signed a treaty with Vermont or exchanged ambassadors.
Vermont was even more of a fake country than the Confederacy.

"Recognition" by other US states simply made admission possible, of Vermont as a US state, a Northern free-state to balance out Kentucky's admission as a slave-state.

woodpusher: "On April 17, 1782, a committee of Congress to which the matter had been submitted reported that the Congressional resolutions of the 20th and 21st of August had been fully complied with, and recommended that the territory of Vermont as defined in these resolutions be recognized and admitted to the Union, as a free and independent state."

And yet, that's not what happened in 1791, when the question was left, at best, ambiguous.
Note the fact that none of these quotes refer to a "Republic of Vermont", and neither the US nor any other government ever formally recognized Vermont as an independent country.

And just so we're clear on this point -- to my understanding, The Republic of Texas was indeed formally recognized as an independent country, with treaties and ambassadors exchanged, though I cannot cite details without looking them up.

My understanding is that, unlike Vermont or the Confederacy, Texas was not a fake country.


133 posted on 08/15/2023 7:09:55 AM PDT by BroJoeK (future DDG 134 -- we remember)
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