Update from Ukraine | Ukrainian army Hits Hard! Clusters id use | Drone Video Confirmation

Youtube.com ^ | 7-22-2023 | Denys Davydov

[MalPearce]

There was the MAKING of a peace deal. Until Russian leadership screwed the pooch, deliberately, in December 2021.

Russian negotiators already had

1. Ukraine agreeing not to apply for NATO membership

2. NATO confirming Ukraine wouldn’t be on any pathway to becoming a NATO member if it didn’t apply

3. Zelenskyy had already pledged to undo Poroshenko’s legislation against the Russian language.

But it’s not an autocracy. Z only unpick legislation that the “last” Rada hadn’t put into law. Most of the hardliners in the Rada had already gotten voted out.

But the Rada still had to vote to repeal the legislation they’d already enacted. So all Putin needed to do to test Ukraine on this point was let fresh elections in Ukraine pass unmolested and see if Ukraine kept the promise.

4. On de-nazification, Ukraine had already started diluting the neonazi battalions, and taking power away from their leaders.

But as long as Ukrainian nationalists knew that Wagner PMC, the LDPR leadership and others were Russia’s boots on Ukrainian ground and they were there to prep a hostile takeover, the *volunteer battalions* were about as likely to give up their guns as American patriots are likely to give up guns.

So further movement on this last point was dependent on Russia admitting that Wagner and the Russian tourists in the LDPR were acting on Kremlin direction, then directing a withdrawal of all Russian nationals.

In other words Putin simply had to stop the “vranyo” over who Girkin, Prighozin, the Wagner PMC, Stremousov etc were fighting for. And comply with the ONE obligation Russia had under the Minsk agreements - pull HIS agents out.

If the LDPR genuinely had been a Russian Ukrainian endeavor - newsflash, it wasn’t - then this withdrawal could’ve forced fresh elections in the Donbas backed by Moscow as well as Ukraine and the west.

So why did Putin dismiss all of that in favor of an insistance on NATO

- rewriting the Charter
- demoting its existing members
- torpedoing another accession in progress
- ending the open door policy
- not giving security guarantees to Ukraine
- giving Moscow a veto on NATO operations and deployments EVEN INSIDE NATO COUNTRIES

That was what the December 2021 demands sent to NATO were. There was not a single demand sent to Kyiv. It was all about NATO throwing eastern Europe, the Baltic, and Ukraine, under a Soviet sized megabus.

“Weaken the NATO mutual defense so Russia can invade the Baltic one day, or Russia will invade Ukraine next year!”, was the intent of the Dec 21 demands.

When the negotiations failed last April, Ukraine put all of that on the table again, the Russian negotiating team liked those onions, and recommended the deal. But the message came back from Moscow, NYET. NATO MUST SAY YES TO THE DEC 21 ULTIMATUM.

So it really doesn’t matter which idiot thinks which western leader “torpedoed the deal”. There isn’t any way on God’s Green Earth that even 51% of NATO leaders would’ve agreed to the Russian blackmail demand.

The doable deal was rejected by Putin and his imbeciles, and their counterproposal was a troll move.

[Rocco DiPippo]

In don't care to view your propaganda and I'm certainly not going to sit and watch an hour's worth of it.

You can try spinning it any way you'd like to but the FACT is that by any objective measure, Youcrayne is getting demolished.

What is it about Youcrayne, that decrepit, corrupt, child trafficking, money laundering paradise of the "elites" that tickles your fancy and leads you (and other Youk-worshippers) to gush praise for it, to lie for and about it, spin for it and its vile, gay-dancing, LGBTQWERTY-loving, puppet "leader," propagandize for it and defend it at any cost except, (of course), by putting on a Azov Battalion uniform and going to actually fight for it on the ground?

Youcrayne is getting slaughtered. Huge swaths of it now look like the moon. Nine million Youks have left the place and are refugees. Deal with reality instead of proffering fantasies and bullcrap.

[Rocco DiPippo]

Then let the murderous swine have at it. Let them destroy each other and kill each other. I don't care about them at all. They've been doing it to each other for centuries. Throwing US taxpayers' cash at them won't end the pathological hatreds they harbor in their rotted hearts and express towards each other. And ~80 years of communism warped their souls, warped their consciences and scrambled their sense of right and wrong.

Trauma changes DNA. . .

One of the guys I rolled with on road trips in Iraq was a former British SAS member. He was a ruthless, fearless guy and was very funny at times too. One evening we were talking about this and that and he brought up that he'd spent time in the Balkans during the Kosovo/Serbia war. I asked him what that had been like. He responded thusly, "There are no good people there." When I pressed him to explain what he'd said he would say nothing more about his experiences in the Balkans.

Later, years of working with Eastern Europeans; Russians, Ukrainians, Slovenians and Albanians off and on gave me a pretty good idea of what he meant by that.

Communism destroys men, morals and cultures.

[Rocco DiPippo]

Good. Then let Ukraine and Russia settle things without a dime of US taxpayers’ money being spent to prop up either side of the beef. As time goes by, fewer and fewer folks give a crap about what Stalin did. Old atrocities will be replaced by newer ones. It’s the way of mankind.

[Rocco DiPippo]

"Ronald Reagan did that, not the proxy wars and wasted lives. And then the U.S. turned into a third-world Commie crap hole."

Reagan helped push them into bankruptcy with his Star Wars bluff. But it was the Chernobyl disaster that finished off the Soviet Union. It was also the Chernobyl disaster that cranked up the historical hatred between Russia and Ukraine.

[Cronos]

rocco - here is how Biden and Putin got electeD

[Jumper]

Becareful my FRiend ansel12 not to fall into the trap of crowd-think. Sometimes the Sheepdog ends up believing all the scuttlebutt the Sheep BA-BA amongst themselves.

The Warrior is lucky enough not be amongst the Sheep like the SheepDog;)

Now repeat after me, Everything I know about __________ was repeatedly told to me by the MSM, compliments of the DCN and the Deep State.

Everything on the Internet went thru or is reviewed by the Intelligence Agency at the Top of the Heap, and is reviewed by TELECOMS/Communications providers, to include Amazon Web Services.

Everything you KNOW about UKRAINE came from the same people who brought you Russian Collusion.

So be the Big Dog and get out of the crowd and look out across the landscape to see what is hidden in plain view from the Sheep. Idol SheepDogs just sit around listening to the local BA-BA, and they never lookout like the Big Dog SheepDog’s who survey their entire worldview for information to protect themselves. YOU WON’T FIND WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE USG ON GOOGLE so get yourself a VPN and keep your sources to yourself so they don’t shut them down. Be cognizant that these sources are not anti-American but if Biden’s clan hides it they will seek and destroy it.

Big Dog’s don’t hide in the pack repeating the gossiping around them - they try to understand Why the Sheep Think the Way they Do.

FR didn’t used to be an Echo Chamber in total, but today you find a threat and there is no INTELLECTUALLY CHALLENGING threads dominated by people educated in the US in the past 25 years - the Marxist’s have crafted a wimpering populace who have never had an original thought having been taught to consume knowlege rather than product, to regurgitate rather than think or ponder.

It’s gonna be Ruff to learn a new way to find knowledge.

Jumper, aka, career warrior and master parachutist/jumpmaster.

[ansel12]

You just reinforced that you make a lot of stuff up on the fly because you wish it so.

[A strike]

So you say.

I know an idiot who thinks that:

“Weaken the NATO mutual defense so Russia can invade the Baltic one day, ...”

[ought-six]

“Do you have an example of Jews trying to ‘purify’ their land of Germans?”

Are you that dim, Bob? Your original comment was, “Very few folks today give a crap what Stalin did 90 years ago.” 90 years ago was the Holodomor, and the purges: Millions of Ukrainians died. I said that such a comment was akin to Jews not giving a crap about what Hitler did. And, you come up with the imbecilic non-sequitur above, about Jews purifying their land of Germans?

Bob, you have a profound deficiency when it comes to logic.

BTW: When are you fleeing the US for the paradise you seem to think the BRICS countries provide? All your bags are packed; right? Tickets already purchased?

[ought-six]

Yes, given enough time and distance such horrors will fade in the collective memories, first- and second- and third-hand memories. But, in the historical perspective (say, over a period of 5,000 years), 90 years ago was less than two years ago; there are still people living today who actually experienced the horrors of the 1930s, let alone the 1940s. And their children, and grandchildren also live with those scars. So, in a historical perspective, those memories are still fresh.

[A strike]

“You just reinforced that you make a lot of stuff up on the fly because you wish it so.”
Jumper did no such thing. But he did accurately describe your affliction.

[Jumper]

Says the boy who cried wolf, or is that woof since you self identify as a sheep dog. Ruff being dogged out isn’t it. There’s a blood moon coming to Ukraine, time for you to go and howl.

[kiryandil]

Do you have an example of Jews trying to ‘purify’ their land of Germans?

Excellent point.

The Ukrainians are trying to purify "their lands" of Russians.

Back in WWII, the Ukrainians were trying to purify "their lands" of Jews and Poles. Apparently, genocide is in their blood - no matter how much our resident apologists try to gloss over that fact.

[Allegra]

Throwing US taxpayers' cash at them won't end the pathological hatreds they harbor in their rotted hearts and express towards each other. And ~80 years of communism warped their souls, warped their consciences and scrambled their sense of right and wrong.

I couldn’t agree more.

And I understand some of these Youkie supporters are from foreign countries and hate the U.S., so they enjoy seeing Biden trash our Treasury the way he’s doing. But I don’t get some of these others. I wonder what the motivation is?

[BobL]

” Excellent point. The Ukrainians are trying to purify “their lands” of Russians.”

Thanks, and yes, the apologists for Ethnic Cleansing will keep defending Ukraine, which just means that more and more of it will be liberated by Russia...

[Rocco DiPippo]

Are you serious?

Russia's still a communist country? Not as far as I know. In fact, unfortunately a low-class, but wealthy, Russian married to a very low class, blingaholic Ukrainian woman bought two properties in my peaceful, little town in Sicily several years ago. Neither of them speak of "comrades" or praise "communism" or anything connected to it. But they sure blather on and on about how great Ayn Rand is when they're not bragging about how much money and property they've amassed. Both of them exhibit the worst traits of capitalism, but in the flesh. Truly cringeworthy people and right in line with the Ukes and Russians I worked with through the years.

Biden's a communist? He threatened to shoot people if they didn't vote for him? News to me. I think it's more realistic - and appropriate - to say that Biden was installed, via a well oiled vote fraud machine concocted by the same amoral, immoral leftist/globalist/RINO/WEF/Trump-hating scumbags and degenerates who are currently pushing for deeper US involvement in the Russia/Ukraine war regardless of the cost.

[Cronos]

In Political terms it is as “communist” as China - with a ruling oligarchy

[Rocco DiPippo]

No it's not. That description is just something you've imposed on what it actually is; not a communist state but a republican government system with separated powers. On the other hand, China is governed by the CCP, a Marxist-Leninist party that controls everything there. China most definitely is a communist, one party state with enough capitalism allowed to keep its people fed and its Party officials rolling in the cash.

Of course, it could be said that Russia's government is not true to its republican ideals in the way that the US government no longer represents the will of the people it governs. As much as I loathe Putin, it seems to me that his government caters to the wishes of the Russian people better than the US government caters to the majority of Americans' wishes.

No, Russia is by no means a "communist state." It is only nostalgic Cold Warriors and anti-Russia propagandists who push that erroneous, rickety view.