Posted on 06/28/2023 6:05:18 AM PDT by ConservativeInPA
(e) Whoever having unauthorized possession of, access to, or control over any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted, or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it; or
Ҥ 2203. Management and custody of Presidential records
(a) Through the implementation of records management controls and other necessary actions, the President shall take all such steps as may be necessary to assure that the activities, deliberations, decisions, and policies that reflect the performance of the President’s constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties are adequately documented and that such records are preserved and maintained as Presidential records pursuant to the requirements of this section and other provisions of law”
https://www.archives.gov/about/laws/presidential-records.html#2203
I’ll repeat:
“the President shall take all such steps as may be necessary to assure that the activities, deliberations, decisions, and policies that reflect the performance of the President’s constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties are adequately documented”
read:
https://www.archives.gov/research/recover/notable-thefts.html
“Samuel Richard “Sandy” Berger (October 28, 1945 – December 2, 2015) was an attorney who served as the 18th US National Security Advisor for US President Bill Clinton from 1997 to 2001 after he had served as the Deputy National Security Advisor for the Clinton administration from 1993 to 1997.
“On July 19, 2004, it was revealed that the United States Department of Justice was investigating Berger for unauthorized removal of classified documents in October 2003 from a National Archives reading room prior to testifying before the 9/11 Commission. The documents were five classified copies of a single report commissioned from Richard Clarke covering internal assessments of the Clinton Administration’s handling of the unsuccessful 2000 millennium attack plots. An associate of Berger said Berger took one copy in September 2003 and four copies in October 2003, allegedly by stuffing the documents into his socks and pants. Berger subsequently lied to investigators when questioned about the removal of the documents.
“In April 2005, Berger pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of unauthorized removal and retention of classified material from the National Archives in Washington, D.C.
“Berger was fined $50,000, sentenced to serve two years of probation and 100 hours of community service, and stripped of his security clearance for three years. The Justice Department initially said Berger only stole copies of classified documents and not originals, but the House Government Reform Committee later revealed that an unsupervised Berger had been given access to classified files of original, uncopied, uninventoried documents on terrorism.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Berger
“CNN
Friday, April 1, 2005
WASHINGTON (CNN) — Federal prosecutors will recommend that former national security adviser Sandy Berger be fined $10,000 and lose his security clearance for three years, but receive no jail time, sources said.”
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/04/01/berger.plea/
“Time after time in the Clinton years, then-National Security Adviser Sandy Berger was reluctant to approve military strikes against Osama bin Laden or al Qaeda, according to the 9/11 commission report.”
https://nypost.com/2004/07/24/sandy-burglar-vetoed-attacks-on-bin-laden/
“I saw “unauthorized possession of” and concluded - there goes their case. He was the president.”
He wasn’t president at the time they found the documents he is charged with possessing. A former president is not authorized to possess national defense information. It seems to be a common misconception that a president owns his presidential records when he leaves office. While a former president has access to his presidential records after he leaves office, they are owned by and in the custody of the government. All of the presidential records contained in presidential libraries are owned by and managed by the National Archives.
As of 12:01 PM on January 20th, 2021, Trump was no longer authorized to possess national defense information as a former president.
The President can in fact declassify records that he leaves with. They made him take a lot of these records ,just so they could do this to him.
But Trump isn’t charged with a violation of the PRA.
Classification is immaterial to the charges, it only matter if they contained national defense information. And despite what Sundance claims, I have seen no evidence that they forced him to take these documents. From what I read from reports written at the time, Trump was so convinced he would stay in office they delayed the process of packing until the last minute. At the end they were just throwing things into boxes rather than sorting them as they went along. That’s how you wound up with classified documents in boxes with golf shirts and newspaper clippings.
Even if what you allege was true, he still wouldn’t have been charged if his attorneys had been allowed to search all of the boxes and return all of the documents responsive to the subpoena. He was only charged over documents found during the raid, not for anything found and returned earlier.
Article II Section 1 of the Constitution vests executive branch power with the president. It's the president that determines what records are classified or not, what records are national defense records or not and what records are presidential records and personal records.
If Trump says that the thirty or so copied records in question are personal records, because he deemed them so when he was president, then these copied records are indeed personal records.
In a just court, Smith has no case.
I don’t think you will get a court to agree that national defense information becomes the president’s personal property just because he deems it so.
“Smith” will be compelled to to explain the PRA in proving any intent or illegality.
He will have to explain, beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump never declassified the documents in question.
Why not?
If not the president, with his constitutional executive branch power, then who??
National defense information never becomes the personal property of anyone. It doesn’t mean the president does not have full access and control over that information while he is president, nor does it mean he can’t classify or declassify at will. He just can’t decide nuclear secrets are his property to take with him when he leaves, regardless of whether or not it is classified.
Define “entitled”.
Define “retains” and “on demand”.
“He wasn’t president at the time they found the documents he is charged with possessing. A former president is not authorized to possess national defense information.”
Bold faced lie. You have no idea what the hell you are talking about.
“He will have to explain, beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump never declassified the documents in question.”
How do you think he can do that since there is no declassification process for the president?
“As of 12:01 PM on January 20th, 2021, Trump was no longer authorized to possess national defense information as a former president.”
Bold faced lie. Go ahead, give us the legal reference to that stupid statement.
Well we certainly don't want any dangerous material being taken by a president who is about to become a private citizen.
Who determines what is national defense information?
I thought it was the president. If not the president, then who?
Obviously because Trump keeps telling everyone every single day that the Presidential Records Act says that, when it clearly says the exact opposite when you read it yourself.
Ridiculous. Even Presidents are subject to the laws that govern the executive branch. To believe your theory, a President could try to claim the laws that govern the FAA do not apply to Air Force One, so he could try to take it on a joyride. Those are all executive branch functions, but are subject to law, not Trump’s impulses.
"having unauthorized possession of..."
They will need to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the President of the United States is not authorized, by the Constitution, Presidential Records Act and any other relevant law, to possess records from his term in office, after he leaves office. I think that's already a pretty high bar.
Second problem:
"which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation"
So they will have to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Trump believed the information he was in possession of could be used to harm the country. This might be a bit easier for them to achieve, since Trump isn't usually too careful with his words, so they may be able to find statements from him that suggest he did believe this. But still, it's something they are going to have to prove; it can't just be assumed to be true because the prosecutor asserts it.
“that are going to be thrown out or jury nullified?”
Since you’re not a prophet, I hope you’ll excuse us for treating the case with some seriousness until your predictions actually come true or not.
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