Posted on 04/02/2023 12:40:00 PM PDT by Mariner
Asking the question: Is twelve tone technique even music?
12-tone was originally "invented" by Arthur Schoenberg at the beginning of the 20th century and was later applied by multiple 20th century composers from Berg to Charlie Parker.
It became especially popular with Jazz musicians in the 40s, 50s and 60s, often integral to Be Bop.
It has no Key, no Harmony, no Melody.
And no discernible time signature or rhythm.
What are your thoughts?
Arnold Schoenberg, not Arthur.
Sorry. Of course, Arnold.
I was working from corrupt memory.
Indeed. An Austrian-American named Arnold, minus the build.
No politics...Free the Animus!
I prefer not to think about 12 tone music or attend its performance.
12 tone “music” deserves the same amount of respect as those piano “players” who take their solos by plucking the strings instead of using the piano keys.
It’s an academic exercise, not music. And I like some pretty wild 20th century classical like Bartok and Hindemith.
But serialists like Schoenberg, Webern, Berg….unlistenable, imo. With a few exceptions.
Here is my take : people who lack talent and produce nothing of value become academics.
“With a few exceptions.”
Here’s one, a 12 tone guy.
But this composition is not 12 tone lol
And it’s very, very good. Though occasionally atonal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVmWimEX1gw
… and also critics. There is a saying, “no one ever erected a monument to a critic”
What other method could be used for ‘Concerto for Untuned Piano and Bowling Ball’?
Of course it’s music.
Just not music I like.
Another example is the “singing” of Yoko Ono. Is it singing?
Technically yes, just not singing that I like.
So, if you forget your notes, you can just “wing it”?
Do you play a musical instrument?
Not music is my vote. Possibly interesting noise. ( to some people, not me) It could just as well be generated by a random number generator converting numbers to harmonic vibrations.
There is no order, no beauty, it evokes no emotions ( except extreme annoyance the couple of times I heard it and a desire to throw something at whatever is making the obnoxious sounds).
I would rather listen to the cement trucks grinding and banging a few streets away in the new housing development, or maybe fingernails on a chalkboard, than listen to that.
Hmmmm! No key, no melody, no harmony and no time signature? I’m sorry but that sounds like either party these days. I didn’t want to to political but........ 😁👍
For example, the rules of counterpoint forbid parallel fifth and octaves, and broadly reject a I-iii-I progression and resolution pattern. Much of Western Music embraces these contrapuntal rules, prolly because they produce masterful works.
The first few bars to the overture of Tristan and Isolde are loosely considered to be the first major use of atonality. People rave about it.
I listened to 12-tone in college. I consider it music. But like Springsteen and most country music, I can't stand it.
I dig free jazz, Zappa, and The Rite of Spring. So I'm a little off so keep that in mind.
I had a music professor once say, if the artist is going for a certain audience response with a piece, and gets that response, then the piece is art. I'm still thinking that one over, but it seems kosher.
I just recently learned about and listened to 12-tone music. I don’t like it. There’s a lot of music I don’t like and can admit it is because I don’t understand it. But I don’t like 12-tone and don’t think it is music.
Well said
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