From top left, clockwise: Dr. Vivek Murthy, Dr. Francis Collins, Dr. Anthony Fauci, and Dr. Rochelle Walensky. (Getty Images)
Posted on 02/02/2023 9:48:37 PM PST by SeekAndFind
Four of the highest ranking U.S. health officials—including Dr. Anthony Fauci—met in secret to discuss whether or not naturally immune people should be exempt from getting COVID-19 vaccines, The Epoch Times can reveal.
The officials brought in four outside experts to discuss whether the protection gained after recovering from COVID-19—known as natural immunity—should count as one or more vaccine doses.
“There was interest in several people in the administration in hearing basically the opinions of four immunologists in terms of what we thought about … natural infection as contributing to protection against moderate to severe disease, and to what extent that should influence dosing,” Dr. Paul Offit, one of the experts, told The Epoch Times.
Offit and another expert took the position that the naturally immune need fewer doses. The other two experts argued natural immunity shouldn’t count as anything.
The discussion did not lead to a change in U.S. vaccination policy, which has never acknowledged post-infection protection. Fauci and the other U.S. officials who heard from the experts have repeatedly downplayed that protection, claiming that it is inferior to vaccine-bestowed immunity. Most studies on the subject indicate the opposite.
The meeting, held in October 2021, was briefly discussed before on a podcast. The Epoch Times has independently confirmed the meeting took place, identified all of the participants, and uncovered other key details.
Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, a professor of medicine at Stanford University who did not participate in the meeting, criticized how such a consequential discussion took place behind closed doors with only a few people present.
“It was a really impactful decision that they made in private with a very small number of people involved. And they reached the wrong decision,” Bhattacharya told The Epoch Times.
From the government:
From outside the government:
Fauci and Murthy decided to hold the meeting, according to emails The Epoch Times obtained.
“Would you be available tonight from 9-9:30 for a call with a few other scientific colleagues on infection-induced immunity? Tony and I just discussed and were hoping to do this sooner rather than later if possible,” Murthy wrote in one missive to Fauci, Walensky, and Collins.
All three quickly said they could make it.
Walensky asked who would be there.
Murthy listed the participants. “I think you know all of them right?” he said.
Walensky said she knew all but one person. “Sounds like a good crew,” she added.
From top left, clockwise: Dr. Vivek Murthy, Dr. Francis Collins, Dr. Anthony Fauci, and Dr. Rochelle Walensky. (Getty Images)
During the meeting, Offit put forth his position—that natural immunity should count as two doses.
At the time, the CDC recommended three shots—a two-dose primary series and a booster—for many Americans 18 and older, soon expanding that advice to all adults, even though trials of the boosters only analyzed immunogenicity and efficacy among those without evidence of prior infection.
Research indicated that natural immunity was long-lasting and superior to vaccination. On the other hand, the CDC published a paper in its quasi-journal that concluded vaccination was better.
Osterholm sided with Offit, but thought that having recovered from COVID-19 should only count as a single dose.
“I added my voice at the meeting to count an infection as equivalent to a dose of vaccine! I’ve always believed hybrid immunity likely provides the most protection,” Osterholm told The Epoch Times via email.
Hybrid immunity refers to getting a vaccine after recovering from COVID-19.
Some papers have found vaccination after recovery boosts antibodies, which are believed to be a correlate of protection. Other research has shown that the naturally immune have a higher risk of side effects than those who haven’t recovered from infection. Some experts believe the risk is worth the benefit but others do not.
Hotez and Iwasaki, meanwhile, made the case that natural immunity should not count as any dose—as has been the case in virtually the entire United States since the COVID-19 vaccines were first rolled out.
Iwasaki referred to a British preprint study, soon after published in Nature, that concluded, based on survey data, that the protection from the Pfizer and AstraZeneca vaccines was heightened among people with evidence of prior infection. She also noted a study she worked on that found the naturally immune had higher antibody titers than the vaccinated, but that the vaccinated “reached comparable levels of neutralization responses to the ancestral strain after the second vaccine dose.” The researchers also discovered T cells—thought to protect against severe illness—were boosted by vaccination.
There’s a “clear benefit” to boosting regardless of prior infection, Iwasaki, who has since received more than $2 million in grants from the National Institutes of Health (NIH), told participants after the meeting in an email obtained by The Epoch Times. Hotez received $789,000 in grants from the NIH in fiscal year 2020, and has received other grants totaling millions in previous years. Offit, who co-invented the rotavirus vaccine, received $3.5 million in NIH grants from 1985 through 2004.
Hotez declined interview requests through a spokesperson. Iwasaki did not respond to requests for comment.
No participants represented experts like Bhattacharya who say that the naturally immune generally don’t need any doses at all.
In an email obtained by The Epoch Times, Akiko Iwasaki wrote to other meeting participants shortly after the meeting ended. (The Epoch Times)
In public, Hotez repeatedly portrayed natural immunity as worse than vaccination, including citing the widely criticized CDC paper, which drew from just two months of testing in a single state.
In one post on Twitter on Oct. 29, 2021, he referred to another CDC study, which concluded that the naturally immune were five times as likely to test positive compared to vaccinated people with no prior infection, and stated: “Still more evidence, this time from @CDCMMWR showing that vaccine-induced immunity is way better than infection and recovery, what some call weirdly ‘natural immunity’. The antivaccine and far right groups go ballistic, but it’s the reality.”
That same day, the CDC issued a “science brief” that detailed the agency’s position on natural immunity versus the protection from vaccines. The brief, which has never been updated, says that available evidence shows both the vaccinated and naturally immune “have a low risk of subsequent infection for at least 6 months” but that “the body of evidence for infection-induced immunity is more limited than that for vaccine-induced immunity.”
Evidence shows that vaccination after infection, or hybrid immunity, “significantly enhances protection and further reduces risk of reinfection” and is the foundation of the CDC’s recommendations, the agency said.
Several months later, the CDC acknowledged that natural immunity was superior to vaccination against the Delta variant, which was displaced in late 2021 by Omicron. The CDC, which has made misleading representations before on the evidence supporting vaccination of the naturally immune, did not respond to a request for comment regarding whether the agency will ever update the brief.
Iwasaki had initially been open to curbing the number of doses for the naturally immune—”I think this supports the idea of just giving one dose to people who had covid19,” she said in response to one Twitter post in early 2021, which is restricted from view—but later came to argue that each person who is infected has a different immune response, and that the natural immunity, even if strong initially, wanes over time.
Osterholm has knocked people who claim natural immunity is weak or non-existent, but has also claimed that vaccine-bestowed immunity is better. Osterholm also changed the stance he took in the meeting just several months later, saying in February 2022 that “we’ve got to make three doses the actual standard” while also “trying to understand what kind of immunity we get from a previous infection.”
Offit has been the leading critic on the Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee, which advises U.S. regulators on vaccines, over their authorizations of COVID-19 boosters. Offit has said boosters are unnecessary for the young and healthy because they don’t add much to the primary series. He also criticized regulators for authorizing updated shots without consulting the committee and absent clinical data. Two of the top U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) officials resigned over the booster push. No FDA officials were listed on invitations to the secret meeting on natural immunity.
Fauci and Walensky, two of the most visible U.S. health officials during the pandemic, have repeatedly downplayed natural immunity.
Fauci, who said in an email in March 2020 that he assumed there would be “substantial immunity post infection,” would say later that natural immunity was real but that the durability was uncertain. He noted the studies finding higher antibody levels from hybrid immunity.
In September 2021, months after claiming that vaccinated people “can feel safe that they are not going to get infected,” Fauci said that he did not have “a really firm answer” on whether the naturally immune should get vaccinated.
“It is conceivable that you got infected, you’re protected—but you may not be protected for an indefinite period of time,” Fauci said on CNN when pressed on the issue. “So I think that is something that we need to sit down and discuss seriously.”
After the meeting, Fauci would say that natural immunity and vaccine-bestowed immunity both wane, and that people should get vaccinated regardless of prior infection to boost their protection.
Walensky, before she became CDC director, signed a document called the John Snow Memorandum in response to the Great Barrington Declaration, which Bhattacharya coauthored. The declaration called for focused protection of the elderly and otherwise infirm, stating, “The most compassionate approach that balances the risks and benefits of reaching herd immunity, is to allow those who are at minimal risk of death to live their lives normally to build up immunity to the virus through natural infection, while better protecting those who are at highest risk.”
The memorandum, in contrast, said there was “no evidence for lasting protective immunity to SARS-CoV-2 following natural infection” and supported the harsh lockdown measures that had been imposed in the United States and elsewhere.
In March 2021, after becoming director, Walensky released recommendations that the naturally immune get vaccinated, noting that there was “substantial durability” of protection six months after infection but that “rare cases of reinfection” had been reported.
Walensky hyped the CDC study on natural immunity in August 2021, and the second study in October 2021. But when the third paper came out concluding natural immunity was superior, she did not issue a statement. Walensky later told a blog that the study found natural immunity provided strong protection, “perhaps even more so than those who had been vaccinated and not yet boosted.”
But, because it came before Omicron, she said, “it’s not entirely clear how that protection works in the context of Omicron and boosting.”
Walensky, Murthy, and Collins did not respond to requests for interviews. Fauci, who stepped down from his positions in late 2022, could not be reached.
Murthy and Collins also portrayed natural immunity as inferior. “From the studies about natural immunity, we are seeing more and more data that tells us that while you get some protection from natural infection, it’s not nearly as strong as what you get from the vaccine,” Murthy said on CNN about two months before the meeting. Collins, in a series of blog posts, highlighted the studies showing higher antibody levels after vaccination and urged people to get vaccinated. He also voiced support for vaccine mandates.
Read more here...
bttt
BOMBSHELL docs reveal Covid-19 COVER-UP goes straight to the top | Redacted with Clayton Morris Rumble video 17:00A BOMBSHELL new report claims shows that the Department of Defense - meaning the Pentagon - controlled the COVID-19 Program from the very beginning. If true, it means that everything we were told was political theater, right down to the FDA vaccine approval process. Our guest today is the former executive of a pharmaceutical contract research organization Sasha Latypova and she shows what she has found due to her searches based on instinct that the Covid vaccine was not exactly on the up and up.
I sure wish Trump would have just stuck with the natural immunity he already had when he took the vaccine just a couple months after having covid. He could have been a great example for everyone on natural immunity but wanted to advertise the vaccines more apparently.
I believe even the Europeans considered natural recovery eligible for the “vaccine” passport.
Yep, when the Euros were doing vax passports, they were allowing a “certificate of recovery” in lieu of vaccination. It’s painful to come to the realization that there’s more corruption, duplicity and outright lying on this side of the Atlantic, but here we are.
Yeah, you have to be vaxxeed to fly in, but you can cross a river or a desert no problemo.
Fauci, et, al., didn’t want any excuses to avoid the jab to be available. The goal was to get the poison into as many bodies as possible. Diabolical.
Or three. Could be four. Science. Still no mention of Ivermectin, eh?
If these four knew that natural immunity was the best solution and still lied to the USA, when will we see them swing from the trees/lamposts in front of the White House?
the problem with looking at data from Sep/Oct 2021 is much has changed. The very first case of omnicron variant for instance didn’t show up until late Nov 2021. Just as omnicron caused breakthrough infections in the vaccinated, omnicron also caused breakthrough in the previously infected and unvaccinated. The second problem that remains with acquired immunity is antibody production is not one-size-fits-all. It depends on an individual’s genetic ability to produce antibodies in sufficient protective quantities. The third problem is the high risk factor for possible complications, which are proven to be mitigated by vaccination. The latest research, for instance, points to a higher risk of cardiac events up to 18 months post infection and a higher risk of long covid in the unvaccinated.
The fourth problem is, ‘hybrid’ immunity is the latest king of the hill against omnicron. Acquired immunity now takes last place after 6 months - 51% protection from mild reinfection vs 60% for vaccine, and 80% protection from severe disease vs 96% for hybrid immunity or 95% vaccine plus booster. But, again, this is against omnicron. The level of protection can change again depending on the next variant to blow into town. Because covid is still a fluid situation, it’s inaccurate to point fingers to data of 18 months ago that dealt with a different covid mutation and claim ‘they lied’ or misled people.
“Meta-regression showed that against hospital admission or severe disease at 6 months, hybrid immunity with the first booster vaccination (95·3% [95% CI 81·9–98·9]) or hybrid immunity with the primary series (96·5% [90·2–98·8]) provided significantly greater protection than previous infection alone (80·1% [70·3–87·2]), the first booster vaccination alone (76·7% [72·5–80·4]), or the primary series alone (64·6% [54·5–73·6]; figure 3; appendix p 52). Against reinfection at 6 months, there was a similar protection conferred by hybrid immunity with the first booster vaccination (46·5% [95% CI 36·0–57·3]), hybrid immunity with the primary series (60·4% [49·6–70·3]), and previous infection alone (51·2% [38·6–63·7])
“... there are serious risks associated with infection. These include the risks of hospital admission, ICU admission and mechanical ventilation, and death; they also include the risk of developing post-COVID-19 complications. Additionally, those who recover from severe COVID-19 have a higher risk of cardiovascular complications, neurological complications, dementia, diabetes, and chronic respiratory problems.
“https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(22)00801-5/fulltext?amp;amp;amp
I just came from a Virgin Islands vacation. I got sick flying to and from. They don’t care anymore. Flights were full of citizens and extras.
It's total BS that vaccine induced immunity is superior to natural immunity, or rather that natural immunity is inferior to vaccine induced immunity.
Of course they knew, because it never was about people's health as much as stealing the election and controlling the sheeple.
I am absolutely convinced that Fauci the egomaniac put himself out there as the guy who could lead the way to politically injure or possibly take down Trump. Recall how Fauci’s love letter to Hillary quickly got out into the public. After that Fauci absolutely became the Democrat’s savior whom the media could not lionize enough. From there on out Fauci was an infallible god whose every word and action had to be believed and adhered to, no questions asked or allowed.
What started as the means to politically damage Trump quickly became the name of the game to smear Trump and to decimate his political armor, the roaring economy. That’s why two weeks to flatten the curve quickly morphed into shut down the economy until everything and everyone was crushed. Of course the evil Democrat cartel took every advantage by changing voting laws and mail-in balloting.
What may have started out as a legitimate health emergency of some degree, quickly turned into a crisis that didn’t go to waste and simply got more diabolical as its success grew.
“They knew”
Not the issue.
The issue: They CHOSE contrary to the data which they knew.
That summary probably has a lot of truth to it, however what no one ever wants to talk about is why hasn’t Trump ever come out and discussed “gain of function” at all. He’s always tried to exclusively pin the virus in the Chinese, even though conservative websites had already exposed it all and were pointing the finger directly at Fauci pretty early in the process.
I kept watching Trump come out on stage with Fauci thinking WTF is going on here, knowing what I knew at the time, and thinking there’s no way Trump didn’t know either. He left all the gain of function in place, and still won’t talk about it, when all it would have taken was an Executive Order to shut it all down before he left office.
That one question brings everything that happened into question.
Truth be told, that is one of the reasons that gives me great pause in supporting Trump again. In fairness, I think Fauci quickly became, “I am the science,” god and it became very very difficult politically to fire Fauci, and Brix for that matter.
But in the end, Trump has unequivocally demonstrated that he is nearly incapable of appointing the right people for any given job. I understand Fauci was not appointed, but also Trump seems to have a hard time getting rid of people long after everyone was left scratching their heads. Trump caused a lot of needless damage by picking bad people and then sticking with them. In my opinion, that is a glaring and possibly a dq fault of Trump’s.
More discussion dancing around the killer nature of the jabs.
The Numbers are Pure BS!
The Jab simply does not work. Not a human benefits from it.
It does not prevent infection, it does not prevent transmission, it does not keep you from dying. (In fact, more died from the jab than those who died because of covid)
And they have literally killed millions.
It was never about public health.
It was about what they plan to do to all of us.
The Great Reset is dead. Every sane person understands what they have done now.
The Answer? NO MOOO!
Put it where the sun don’t shine.
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