Looks like a collision to me...
Posted on 11/30/2022 1:54:31 PM PST by DFG
The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) on Wednesday released its preliminary report on the deadly plane air show plane crash in Dallas earlier this month.
Just after 1:20 p.m. on Nov. 12, five people on board a B-17 Flying Fortress were killed along with the pilot of a P-63 King Cobra during the Wings Over Dallas air show that featured several World War II-era planes.
A full investigation could take up to 12-18 months, according to the NTSB, and the report released Wednesday were the initial findings by investigators.
According to recorded audio for the airshow radio transmissions and Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast (ADS-B) data, the air boss, who was directing the show, directed the Bell P-63F King Cobra, which was in a three-ship formation of historic fighter airplanes, and the Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress, which was in a five-ship formation of historic bomber airplanes, to maneuver southwest of the runway before returning to the flying display area.
The NTSB report says the air boss told the fighter formation to transition to a trail formation, fly in front of the bomber formation and head toward the 500-foot show line. The bombers were told to fly down the 1,000-foot show line.
The NTSB report says the 500-foot show line and the 1,000-foot show line were 500 feet and 1,000 feet from the airshow viewing line, behind where the audience viewed the show.
(Excerpt) Read more at wfaa.com ...
https://interactive.wfaa.com/pdfs/Report_CEN23MA034_106276_11_30_2022-2_31_45-PM.pdf
Looks like a collision to me...
Two question come to this former tactical naval aviator.
(1) how old was the pilot of the fighter?
(2) how much experience did he have in tactical aircraft?
From viewing the film, it appears as if he lost track of his high closure and compounded that error by going belly-up, thus losing sight. The correct thing to have done is to have yo-yo’d hard leveled wings and gone vertical, and even canopy rolling to keep the slower bomber in sight. NEVER lose sight!
It is VERY disturbing footage to view.
One wonders how often similar collisions took place over Europe during the war.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uci0QkMRW5U
Video on loss rates which includes, collision, mechanical, and landing mishaps. Also losses to flak and fighters.
Since this leaves approximately 4 airworthy B-17’s - let’s take care of the remainder.
Looked intentional to me, OR the fighter pilot did not see the B-17 because its camo paint scheme blended with the ground, OR fighter pilot medical emergency due to be vaxxed.
It’s hard to believe that guys with this much experience could screw up so badly.
I’m no expert in air show maneuvers but the ones I’ve seen, the fighters fly in formation keeping each other in view at all times, and the bombers fly separately.
Apparently the view from that particular fighter is very poor.
The co-pilot is visible, his right arm pushing against the roof, as the bomber was arching down immediately. Negative Gs. Terrible.
Coming up from behind, restricted visibility, greater overtaking speed.....
Super Cobra at fault, no matter what other ad-hoc air-show movements were planned or discussed. And understood or misunderstood. Etc.
You overtake from the rear, without forward vis...leading to a fatal collision...
It’s on you.
[IMHO]
A pilot can’t see what is under their plane. No more than a semi driver can see what is behind their dry van trailer. When the much faster fighter plane was told to go ahead of the bomber, they both went into a “curve” and neither pilot saw the other plane. The fighter probably needed to fly that fast simply to avoid a stall/spin/crash?
New video suggests that the P-63 may have collided with something small — possibly a drone — resulting in loss of control and a stall.
Silly comment alert.
These planes are highly treasured by the vintage aircraft community and other lovers of aircraft and things flying.
But taking to the air involves risks.
Maybe you mean they should only be parked in hangars and museums forever?
As has been shown in many crashes, a cockpit pillar or other “partial obstruction” can cause a total blind spot as one aircraft overtakes another in a turn. The pilot may be temporarily blind-spotted while the co-pilot is looking down at other tasks.
If you don’t completely understand what “constant bearing, decreasing range” means, you should NOT be an airplane pilot. CBDR must be on your mind every single minute in the air!
At least in my realm, on the 2D ocean, I have minutes to find and correct a “blind spot” mistake before some ship runs me down. The same mistake in the air at 100s of knots closing speed....people will die.
Cessna vs passenger jet over San Diego.
Commuter plane sight-seeing the Queen Mary off France colliding with a Cessna another well-known and studied case.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proteus_Airlines_Flight_706
Proteus Airlines Flight 706 was a scheduled commuter flight from Lyon, France to Lorient, France. On July 30, 1998, the Beechcraft 1900D operating the flight collided in mid-air with a Cessna 177 over Quiberon Bay. This accident was known as Quiberon Bay mid-air collision. Both aircraft crashed in the sea, killing fifteen people.
ALSO:
Brazilian Mid-Air Collision Case
An Embraer business jet and a Gol Airlines Boeing 737 commercial jetliner suffered a mid-air collision over the Brazilian jungle. The Traffic Collision Avoidance System (TCAS) on the Embraer was not operating.
https://www.kreindler.com/news/brazilian-mid-air-collision-case
My comment: The non-operability of collision avoidance tech, known or not known, does NOT get the pilot off the hook. You must ALWAYS be moving your head and eyes, scanning for CBDR contacts. And as much as possible, when he is in his seat, the copilot must share this responsibility to the maximum possible.
After we enlarged the image it became clearer that the image appears to show an arm in a tan flight suit gripping something in the upper cockpit frame.
In the picture in this thread, zoom in on the cockpit and on the left side just behind the remainder of the windshield and see what you think.
Craig Hutain, 63.
https://abc13.com/dallas-air-show-pilots-who-died-in-the-pilot/12453902/
…Hutain has had his pilot license since 1975 and has more than 34,000 hours of flying, according to the Commemorative Air Force. He was currently flying as a captain for United Airlines, based out of Houston…
Thanks for that link. It brought the scenario into clearer focus.
“The co-pilot is visible, his right arm pushing against the roof, as the bomber was arching down immediately. Negative Gs. Terrible.”
I zoomed on that photo, and you could very well be right.
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