Posted on 10/10/2022 7:34:17 AM PDT by Tench_Coxe
"For God’s sake, this man cannot remain in power,” President Biden said of Vladimir Putin in March, a month after Russia’s second unprovoked invasion of Ukraine, in remarks the Washington Post called “the most defiant and aggressive speech about Russia by an American president since Ronald Reagan.” Biden’s staff, however, immediately backpedaled, saying, “the president’s point was that Putin cannot be allowed to exercise power over his neighbors or the region. He was not discussing Putin’s power in Russia or regime change.” Later, Biden himself dutifully resiled from regime change.
(snip)
Outsiders can assist in many ways, including augmenting dissidents’ communications internally and with their diaspora, and significantly enhanced programs to transmit information into Russia (complicated by the long decline in US information-statecraft capabilities). Financial support, especially given Russian economic conditions, and not necessarily in large amounts, can also be critical. What Washington says publicly about regime-change should be concerted with the dissidents and other foreign allies. Keeping our actions covert may be impossible, but there is likely no need to ballyhoo them.
(Excerpt) Read more at 19fortyfive.com ...
The FR warmongers hate Putin with a passion they are blind to their hypocrisy. They trash John McCain and Linda Graham’s insane warmongering, they trash the deep states never ending wars and my God Biden is a drooling idiot.
Aside from McCain having assumed room temperature, astoundingly the FR warmongers lap up everything these people say about fighting a WWIII and a nuclear war. The Ukraine is a noble freedom loving democracy. The deep state is looking out for America and it’s interests-never mind they have screwed up everything they have been involved in since Desert Storm. The joint chiefs love all of America and especially conservatives, so much so they are hunted down and dismissed from the military. And then there is the FR warmongers warrior of warrior presidents: Joe Biden and his cabinet of experts, why that’s the bunch we want leading us into a nuclear confrontation—couldn’t ask for anything better! They buy the propaganda like it’s going out of style and are clueless to their rank hypocrisy.
That being said they are going to have their war conventional or nuclear or both, doesn’t matter, come hell or high water...
Objectively, Putin is a menace. There is no good reason for name calling and insults against those who point that out.
The regime change needs to happen to the MSM.
This is insane! Corner a megalomaniac with nuclear weapons and tell him his ONLY option is to be forcibly removed.
They are cornering the man and eliminating every off-ramp potentially available to him. It seems to me that the people doing this absolutely want their war to be expanded, catastrophic and global and they are going to force it upon the planet regardless.
Insanity. Lord in Heaven help us!
Soros wants him gone.
The current regime hides behind old patriotic imagery. But that is in reminisce of an older order of limited government and moral decency. Russia uses the symbology of a murderous totalitarian regime. Germany thoroughly de-Nazified. To this day, the German government prosecutes people now close to 100 for tangential involvement in war crimes. When Russia renounces all the old Soviet symbolism and punishes former KGB and Communist Party members for their crimes, I will believe that Russia is no longer Communist controlled.
Objectively, Zelensky is a menace. There is no good reason for name calling and insults against those who point that out. That isn't me disagreeing with your statement, that is me expanding on it.
Putin is a menace I agree. I’ve been called a commie lover and everything else because I have stated this a war not in America’s interests and we need to abstain from it as we have not been attacked and neither has a country we are obligated by treaty to defend.
Just how is Zelensky a menace? Does he control a stockpile of nuclear weapons aimed at the US, as Putin does? Has Zelensky threatened the US or an ally of the US, as Putin has done?
We fundamentally disagree on how America’s interest is assessed. Since the peace and security of Europe are in our interest, defending Europe against Putin is in our interest. And Putin’s attack on Ukraine and his larger claims are a direct threat to our treaty allies in NATO.
He's been a menace to his own countrymen since the day he took office (just like Biden, right from day one). What he has done to them would be akin to Biden shelling Alabama for years because of our funny accent. Did Ukrainian history begin for you on Feb 24, 2022?
Defending a treaty nation is one thing. Coaxing on an ongoing war to escalate and expand to get us involved in a world war is insane on our part.
Claims and actions are two separate things. Putin can claim he owns all of Europe, him invading and doing so are different realities by 180 degrees.
What do you think will happen when your wish is granted and NATO conventional forces clash with Russian forces, regardless of the cause?
NATO condemns Russia’s war of aggression against Ukraine in the strongest possible terms. It gravely undermines international security and stability, and is a blatant violation of international law. NATO Allies call on Russia to stop the war immediately, withdraw all its forces from Ukraine and engage in genuine diplomacy.
The Alliance condemns Russia’s decision to extend recognition to the self-proclaimed “people’s republics” in eastern Ukraine.
NATO stands with the people of Ukraine and its legitimate, democratically elected president, parliament and government. The Alliance will always maintain its full support for the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine within its internationally recognised borders.
* * *
At the 2022 NATO Summit in Madrid, Allies agreed to strengthen the Comprehensive Assistance Package (CAP), and provide even more support to Ukraine. The enhanced CAP includes support in multiple areas, including secure communications, cyber defences and resilience, fuel, medical supplies, body armour, equipment to counter mines and chemical and biological threats, and portable anti-drone systems. It also includes initiatives to further strengthen and modernise Ukraine’s defence and security institutions. Allies also agreed to help Ukraine transition from Soviet-era equipment to modern NATO equipment, boosting interoperability with Allied forces. In the longer term, the Alliance is committed to assisting Ukraine and supporting efforts on its path of post-war reconstruction and reforms.
In parallel, NATO Allies have significantly stepped up their bilateral support and provision of equipment, helping Ukraine to uphold its right of self-defence, which is enshrined in the United Nations Charter. Allies are also providing substantial financial and humanitarian aid, including by hosting millions of refugees in countries all across the Alliance. NATO Allies have agreed to step up and sustain their support for as long as necessary, so that Ukraine prevails.
NATO stands with the people of Ukraine and its legitimate, democratically elected president, parliament and government. The Alliance will always maintain its unwavering support for Ukraine’s independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity within its internationally recognised borders extending to its territorial waters.
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Consider the part in bold: NATO states that it and its members are in the conflict "as long as necessary, so that Ukraine prevails."
Your dissent seems to be well, no NATO treaty nation is under direct military attack, so we should not be involved. That is not how the NATO alliance works. Even without an attack on a NATO ally in Europe, they were with the US in Iraq in the Gulf War and in numerous other venues and actions because the NATO alliance aims at the defense of not just the territory but also the vital interests of its allies. And those interests include the survival and victory of Ukraine against Russia.
Contrary to what you seem to assume, proxy wars do not inevitably end in direct wars between the sponsoring powers. In far more fraught times, Vietnam and Korea were proxy wars with Russia and did not end in a nuclear exchange. Neither will the Ukraine conflict.
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