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To: Rockingham

Defending a treaty nation is one thing. Coaxing on an ongoing war to escalate and expand to get us involved in a world war is insane on our part.

Claims and actions are two separate things. Putin can claim he owns all of Europe, him invading and doing so are different realities by 180 degrees.

What do you think will happen when your wish is granted and NATO conventional forces clash with Russian forces, regardless of the cause?


54 posted on 10/11/2022 12:25:27 PM PDT by sarge83
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To: sarge83
Here is what our European treaty allies say (in part) via a statement on the NATO website:

NATO condemns Russia’s war of aggression against Ukraine in the strongest possible terms. It gravely undermines international security and stability, and is a blatant violation of international law. NATO Allies call on Russia to stop the war immediately, withdraw all its forces from Ukraine and engage in genuine diplomacy.

The Alliance condemns Russia’s decision to extend recognition to the self-proclaimed “people’s republics” in eastern Ukraine.

NATO stands with the people of Ukraine and its legitimate, democratically elected president, parliament and government. The Alliance will always maintain its full support for the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine within its internationally recognised borders.

* * *

At the 2022 NATO Summit in Madrid, Allies agreed to strengthen the Comprehensive Assistance Package (CAP), and provide even more support to Ukraine. The enhanced CAP includes support in multiple areas, including secure communications, cyber defences and resilience, fuel, medical supplies, body armour, equipment to counter mines and chemical and biological threats, and portable anti-drone systems. It also includes initiatives to further strengthen and modernise Ukraine’s defence and security institutions. Allies also agreed to help Ukraine transition from Soviet-era equipment to modern NATO equipment, boosting interoperability with Allied forces. In the longer term, the Alliance is committed to assisting Ukraine and supporting efforts on its path of post-war reconstruction and reforms.

In parallel, NATO Allies have significantly stepped up their bilateral support and provision of equipment, helping Ukraine to uphold its right of self-defence, which is enshrined in the United Nations Charter. Allies are also providing substantial financial and humanitarian aid, including by hosting millions of refugees in countries all across the Alliance. NATO Allies have agreed to step up and sustain their support for as long as necessary, so that Ukraine prevails.

NATO stands with the people of Ukraine and its legitimate, democratically elected president, parliament and government. The Alliance will always maintain its unwavering support for Ukraine’s independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity within its internationally recognised borders extending to its territorial waters.

--------------------

Consider the part in bold: NATO states that it and its members are in the conflict "as long as necessary, so that Ukraine prevails."

Your dissent seems to be well, no NATO treaty nation is under direct military attack, so we should not be involved. That is not how the NATO alliance works. Even without an attack on a NATO ally in Europe, they were with the US in Iraq in the Gulf War and in numerous other venues and actions because the NATO alliance aims at the defense of not just the territory but also the vital interests of its allies. And those interests include the survival and victory of Ukraine against Russia.

Contrary to what you seem to assume, proxy wars do not inevitably end in direct wars between the sponsoring powers. In far more fraught times, Vietnam and Korea were proxy wars with Russia and did not end in a nuclear exchange. Neither will the Ukraine conflict.

55 posted on 10/11/2022 4:11:47 PM PDT by Rockingham
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