Posted on 09/30/2022 9:17:03 AM PDT by RandFan
@RepThomasMassie
There will be much discussion of NATO Article 5 today, but few will mention Article 11, because it exposes the lie that Article 5 itself can obligate the US to war. Article 11 shows Article 5 does not preempt the Constitutional requirement that the full Congress votes on war.
(Excerpt) Read more at twitter.com ...
The North Atlantic Treaty was ratified by the Senate back in 1949.
Russia doesn’t own the Nordstream pipelines, it was a joint venture primarily financed by various European energy conglomerates.
Unless Congress does something first
Congress won’t do anything, it’s controlled by the Dems and there are more than enough traitorous RINO’s willing to go along with them on this.
I don't they're trying to force anyone into anything: they offered Zelensky the rooftop helicopter ride out. The expected Ukraine to collapse almost immediately, and even afterwards hedged their bets by only doling out military aid in small chunks. Only the Germans have been dragging their feet, mainly because of the SPD's close ties to Putin. By having done so little, Germany now plays almost no role in determining the outcome of the war despite the fact that they will suffer the most from the loss of Russian gas.
Ukrainian resistance turned out to be far stronger that they or Putin expected, which is now leading to Putin trying to up the ante and coerce Ukraine and NATO to accept his annexations. That won't work.
Also even Article 5 only *authorizes* members to take whatever action they “deem necessary”. This could be a diplomatic protest... economic measures... supplying others... etc.
Not a word in Article 5 obligates a military response.
You’re wrong.
“Article 5,
The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action ***AS IT DEEMS NECESSARY***,including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.”
It’s an authorization, not a requirement.
AAS I said it was a joint venture, technically you could say Gazprom owns it since they control 51%, but Western companies provided half of the financing and owned the other 49%.
“Gazprom paid half the cost of building Nord Stream 2, with the remainder of the $11 billion pipeline project financed by British oil and gas major Shell (SHEL.L), Austria’s OMV (OMVV.VI), France’s Engie and Germany’s Uniper (UN01.DE) and Wintershall DEA (WINT.UL).”
I suspect there is a timetable based on the November 8 election.
“Only the Germans have been dragging their feet, mainly because of the SPD’s close ties to Putin.”
The Germans have been dragging their feet because they know there is no popular support among their people to directly involve themselves into this. Recently there have been mass demonstrations in Germany and elsewhere in the EU to do away with the Russian sanctions because the cost of energy there has gone thru the roof. The Neocons noted this and thus took out the pipelines as they saw Germany and the EU going soft, so they basically took that option away.
Sourcing their gas from the US and elsewhere means it’s costing them 2-3 times as much as they were paying Russia, rendering their economy uncompetitive. The only country benefitting from this Ukraine proxy war is the US, the EU is screwed.
The only time Art 5 was invoked was in redponse to 9/11. NATO countries sent military forces to join US forces in fighting the Taliban. Many instances of the heroism and effectiveness of those NATO troops were often highlighted here on FR.
It seems to me that the key point is that if a NATO member is attacked, then other NATO members are authorized to respond.
So who got attacked? Well, Ukraine was invaded by Russia.
And someone blew up Russia’s pipeline.
Help me out here ... I’m not spotting the NATO member who was attacked. Why is anyone talking about Article V?
The pipeline terminates in Germany. It carries a vital supply to the German economy. If it can be proven this was a result of Russian action then Art 5 can be invoked. If it can be deyermined that this was a result of US action then we have committed an act of war against Russia and Germany. Crazy huhh? FYI Google the plot of the 1982 ABC miniseries World War3. Similarities abound..
I think that’s a stretch.
First, I’m the camp that says it’s ludicrous to think that Russia bombed it’s own pipeline. But even if Russia did bomb itself, this would “authorize” NATO to attack Russia? Because Germany needs Russian oil?
You know, Hitler headed to Stalingrad because Germany needed Russian oil. This is not always a sufficient justification.
I think the Globalists really want nuclear war and any excuse will do.
You don’t believe that this Global Government activity isn’t part of the same scheme that included the 2020 Election therft? When the do-over comes in this country, the U.N. and NATO will be old memories of fools who were singing “We Are The World” and “Kumbaya”.
You don’t believe that this Global Government activity isn’t part of the same scheme that included the 2020 Election therft? When the do-over comes in this country, the U.N. and NATO will be old memories of fools who were singing “We Are The World” and “Kumbaya”.
The German government was not going soft on sanctions. The only party making noises was Die Linke, where Sahra Wagenknecht was talking about dropping sanctions along with an eastern German state politician. Their comments where widely condemned by other German politicians and the media.
The notion that the US blew up the pipelines is laughable, as this administration wears diapers because it pisses itself with fear every day. The "Biden" admin is clueless not ruthless.
Since when does Congress vote on going to war?
1941 is the answer. 81 years have passed since the US has “gone to war” legally.
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