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Tesla Is Reviving Old School Battery Technology
Oil price ^ | Feb 23, 2022, | Alex Kimani

Posted on 02/24/2022 11:05:35 AM PST by george76

Soaring battery metal costs are leading to a renewed interest in ithium iron phosphate (LFP) batteries.

Manufacturers are looking to cut cobalt use as they are looking to cut costs and improve their ESG profile.

Tesla is making the switch to LFP mandatory in all its markets after a positive reception in the U.S.

In the vast majority of cases, technological innovation leads to newer, cheaper, and more efficient designs than their predecessors. But every once in a while, technological progress goes into reverse gear when progress turns out to be turbocharged regress.

...

During an investor presentation last year, Tesla revealed that it’s switching battery chemistry for all standard-range Models 3 and Y from nickel cobalt aluminum (NCA) chemistry to an alternative, older technology that uses a lithium iron phosphate (LFP) chemistry.

Cobalt-free batteries..

...

Lithium-ion batteries contain a variety of elements, including lithium, nickel, aluminum, iron, manganese and cobalt. Of these metals, cobalt is the most expensive, with the average cost of the blue metal surpassing the cost of all the other battery metals put together

...

Even more worryingly, beyond its price, is that cobalt mining comes with a huge human cost, too: about 60% comes from the Democratic Republic of the Congo, where mining has been linked to child labor and deaths.

Scarcity, price, and human rights concerns have made the elimination of cobalt from EV batteries

...

LFP Batteries..

LFP technology is commonly used in simple, less demanding devices such as golf carts and home backup power systems..

...

LFP batteries have a key attraction that is proving too powerful to ignore: price.

LFP cells not only have much longer useful lifetimes but are also cheaper than NCA or nickel manganese cobalt (NMC) cells.

(Excerpt) Read more at oilprice.com ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: aluminum; batteries; battery; cobalt; ev; evbatteries; iron; ironphosphate; lfp; lithium; manganese; nickel; technology; tesla
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1 posted on 02/24/2022 11:05:35 AM PST by george76
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To: george76

Tesla shying away from “Blood Cobalt.”


2 posted on 02/24/2022 11:14:38 AM PST by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: george76
They should go to really old technology for trucks.

Iron Edison batteries.

They get better with age, can't be damaged by over or under charge and have been proven for over 100 years.

3 posted on 02/24/2022 11:15:21 AM PST by Mogger
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To: All

Actually, Lithium Iron batteries are a much more recent development than Lithium Cobalt batteries... By more than a decade.


4 posted on 02/24/2022 11:20:09 AM PST by LegendHasIt
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To: Mogger

I have wondered why these are not used in offgrid solar applications.

But maybe they are?

https://ironedison.com/


5 posted on 02/24/2022 11:22:46 AM PST by algore
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To: Mogger

“They get better with age, can’t be damaged by over or under charge and have been proven for over 100 years.”

They charge VERY slowly and would increase the car weight by several thousand pounds.


6 posted on 02/24/2022 11:27:58 AM PST by TexasGator (UF)
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To: george76

Pink Eveready Bunny:
I told you. The old school ways keep going and going and going....


7 posted on 02/24/2022 11:30:57 AM PST by frank ballenger (You have summoned up a thundercloud. You're gonna hear from me. Anthem by Leonard Cohen)
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To: george76

With nanotechnology improvements, we’re going to end up back to the future with the nickel-iron battery that Edison invented in 1901 which is durable, safe, and lasts for decades.


8 posted on 02/24/2022 11:35:58 AM PST by bigbob
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To: algore
That's a pretty good price for 10 kWh solar battery storage. However, the warranty is only 10 years. That's not as good as my solar batteries having a 19-year warranty (7,000 discharges). Maybe if the warranty improves it'll be used for home solar.

Also, how fast will it charge and discharge? My solar inverter can convert DC to AC at 9 kW continuously. That means nothing if the batteries can't discharge that quickly -- otherwise I'm pulling from the grid. The same with charging quickly (my 10 kW solar panels need somewhere for that power to be stored if my home isn't using the power, but that means the batteries have to be able to accept up to 10kW charge from my charge controllers at any given time). If the batteries don't have rapid charge and discharge they're practically useless for running a home with.

9 posted on 02/24/2022 11:36:40 AM PST by Tell It Right (1st Thessalonians 5:21 -- Put everything to the test, hold fast to that which is true.)
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To: george76

I said in an earlier post that Tesla’s goal of 500,000 miles before EV batteries failed sounded unrealistic, but after reading about the lithium iron phosphate batteries in wikipedia, that lifetime sounds realistic.


10 posted on 02/24/2022 11:48:36 AM PST by cymbeline
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To: george76

I’ve got an electric car design that doesn’t require any rare earth minerals or precious metals for batteries at all!

We’ll just put a giant flywheel in the trunk to store all the energy. Now the steering might be affected a bit, but that’s a small price to pay for “going green”!


11 posted on 02/24/2022 12:01:03 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman

Back in the 80s at Allison we built a bus drivetrain with the flywheel concept. It was set up to use braking energy to charge the flywheel. Since the flywheel has to be in a vacuum and magnetic bearings to minimize the drag, it was too big of a technical challenge (and $$$) for road vehicle equipment.


12 posted on 02/24/2022 12:06:49 PM PST by nascarnation (Let's Go Brandon!)
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To: algore
I have wondered why these are not used in offgrid solar applications.

They are. I just bought some to replace my old flooded cell batts. Supposed to last 3 times longer plus can be cycled deeper. We'll see.

13 posted on 02/24/2022 12:38:23 PM PST by TangoLimaSierra (⭐⭐Public hangings will wake 'em up.⭐⭐)
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To: Tell It Right
Checkout this guys channel. He has lots of vids on these batteries.

Don't be thrown by his looks. He looks like he's 14 but he's in his 30s and really knows his stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoj6RxIAQq8kmJme-5dnN0Q

14 posted on 02/24/2022 12:42:28 PM PST by TangoLimaSierra (⭐⭐Public hangings will wake 'em up.⭐⭐)
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To: Boogieman
We’ll just put a giant flywheel in the trunk to store all the energy.

They were doing that back in the 40s in buses. And more modern adaptations, too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHyUDihL_FQ

15 posted on 02/24/2022 12:46:48 PM PST by TangoLimaSierra (⭐⭐Public hangings will wake 'em up.⭐⭐)
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To: Boogieman

Or go real old school, Flintstone cars.yaba daba do.😏


16 posted on 02/24/2022 1:49:24 PM PST by BiteYourSelf ( Earth first we'll strip mine the other planets later.)
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To: TangoLimaSierra

Wil Prouse been following him for a while.


17 posted on 02/24/2022 1:50:51 PM PST by BiteYourSelf ( Earth first we'll strip mine the other planets later.)
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To: BiteYourSelf

Oops I meant Will Prowse.


18 posted on 02/24/2022 1:52:10 PM PST by BiteYourSelf ( Earth first we'll strip mine the other planets later.)
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To: Boogieman

Axis direction and gimbals need to given some thought.


19 posted on 02/24/2022 2:32:24 PM PST by GingisK
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To: george76

Now THAT IS how to post an article ladies and gentlemen!! Nice Excerpt! Thank you George!

and good article too


20 posted on 02/24/2022 2:37:35 PM PST by subterfuge (I'm a pure-blood!)
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