Posted on 01/08/2022 8:11:26 AM PST by DoodleBob
It’s a question those of us in the gun writing business often get asked. “What’s the best caliber for a self-defense handgun?” Those expecting a one-to-three digit answer from me will be disappointed. I respond to their simple question with a complex one. “What is the most powerful cartridge that you can shoot accurately and proficiently that comes in a handgun which is comfortable enough to carry that you’ll carry it all the time?” Depending on the person asking, the answer will vary. For some, it’s a full-sized .357 Mag. or 10 mm Auto. For others, it’s one of the current .380 ACPs offered in a 9 mm-sized handgun. And in certain cases, it’s the .22 LR.
...
Civilians who carry a firearm for self-defense are considering many of the same factors, including ammunition cost and availability, but their most important consideration should be using a firearm that is reliable and that they can consistently hit their target with at self-defense distances. Ballistic advantages goes out the window when your bullet doesn’t connect. Five .22 LRs in the bullseye beat one .44 Mag. that missed completely. To paraphrase famed lawman Bill Jordan, ballistics are fine, but accuracy is final.
Recoil is one factor that can hamper accuracy. Even cartridges on the lower end of the power spectrum, like the .380 ACP, can produce a lot of recoil when paired with one of today’s ultralight, micro-compact handguns. Lack of recoil is the .22 LR’s main advantage when it comes to shooting accurately. The topic of the .22 LR as a self-defense cartridge has been fought over and over in digital and print forums.
(Excerpt) Read more at americanrifleman.org ...
Prison, Prison, Prison.
no
Two hits of five with a 9mm beats 3-4 hits of a .22 in almost every plausible scenario.
.22lr -------- vs. ------- .357 .22lr hit --- 357 wins------- .357 hit .22lr hit ---.22lr wins --- .357 miss .22lr miss ---.357 wins ------- .357 hit .22lr miss --- both win ------- .357 missI've heard it said that 95% of all gunfights end as soon as someone gets hit. The name of the game is to get that hit.
Now that's funny.
Thanks for the research. Noted.
95% of all gunfights end when one person gets hit.
Your “plausible scenario” is when both get hit. I’ll stick with 95% plausibility, thank you very much.
Uhh, your point was that you’re gonna miss. Now you’re talkin’ about both shooters hitting. Make up your mind.
Just as was pointed out that a person can miss with a lower caliber just as easily as with a higher caliber, the same concept would apply: Which caliber lends itself to better training and developing better technique? That caliber would be superior.
One of the issues that weighs in on training/technique is price & availability of ammo.
I was checking on shotshell for .22lr versus 9mm. It’s about half the price right now. Those first two shots in my revolver would have much higher chance of a hit with snakeshot.
I had not seen that tweet before (then again, I am not on twitter).
But, the great irony is that slavery existed for almost 80 years under the Stars and Stripes, and only 4 years under the Stars and Bars (and I want to make it clear, the “Confederate” flag so readily associated with the CSA, the St. Andrews battle flag, or the “Jack,” was not the national banner of the Confederacy; the actual Stars and Bars looked more like a constricted US flag, as it had the same colors and a similar design, but with only two lateral red stripes). Slavery still existed under the Stars and Stripes after the collapse of the Confederacy, and didn’t legally end until December 6, 1865, with the ratification of the 13th Amendment.
Are you asking that we shoot only American made dirtbags as well?
gun price ammo power ammo price barrel length-Power barrel length accuracy effective range round capacity total percentage importance
How important%
9.7 10.3 19.4 9.7 15.5 14.5 20.3 1
I’ve heard it said that 95% of all gunfights end as soon as someone gets hit. The name of the game is to get that hit
Trouble is you don’t get to pick the robbers that come for you. You are too likely to get the really tough guys. The jeweler in CA that had multiple weapons at his finger tips and empied most of them before he killed enough that the rest ran is an example.
There are hundreds of stories of people who would not give up, both good and bad guys.
Just last week there was a woman cop who took one in her stomach...but she killed the guy that shot her.
There is the Miami FBI story.
Most real gang members, like MS-13 don’t run from a fight. Many news stories describe them shooting it out toe to toe.
And there is always the danger of the guy on meth. You need to break a hip bone or worse to stop them.
The only way to survive is to totally disable the bad guy immediately. Killing him is of zero benefit if he lives long enough to kill you.
In my opinion, 9MM is the absolute minimum for self defense...and ammo must be very carefully selected.
You are correct as far as ordinary street punks go.
***That is what one usually plans for is the ordinary, not the extraordinary. Aiming for that 95% of cases rather than the 5%. We don’t see a lot of concealed carry .50Cal Barrett sniper rifles in peoples’ back pocket, ferinstance. Keep in mind that we’re helping out those who are going to be relative newbies. People who shoot a lot already know what their favored caliber, barrel length, etc. are.
Most of the stories I see, there will be two or three punks but only one armed. Even if the others are armed, knock one down and the others run as fast as they can.
***The CDC says that for every gun death in America, there are 150 “brandishing” incidents that WARD OFF further violence. In your scenario it is very likely that the street punks run away as soon as they see any gun brandished in self-defense.
Trouble is you don’t get to pick the robbers that come for you. You are too likely to get the really tough guys.
***Then it comes down to what the author of this article says: Hitting your target is the most important.
The jeweler in CA that had multiple weapons at his finger tips and empied most of them before he killed enough that the rest ran is an example.
***I was working down the street from a jewelry robbery. The jeweler’s wife had been murdered in a previous robbery. The two perps came in right at the moment that an off duty police officer was in the shop. The cop ran after the 2 guys and killed one of them — our fedex driver saw the whole thing. The cop and the perp were both using cars as shields. He said that the cop fired a round that put the guy’s head down, then he carefully lined up his shot where the guy’s head had popped up before, bang-bang the guy was dead.
There are hundreds of stories of people who would not give up, both good and bad guys.
***There are hundreds of THOUSANDS of stories of people who run away once a gun is brandished.
Just last week there was a woman cop who took one in her stomach...but she killed the guy that shot her.
***Just last week there were 4 stories of people who brandished their guns and the perps ducked away.
There is the Miami FBI story.
***There is the CDC collation of those hundreds of thousands of brandishing incidents.
Most real gang members, like MS-13 don’t run from a fight.
***And most real gang members don’t target open-carry gunholders.
Many news stories describe them shooting it out toe to toe.
***Very few news stories describe the brandishing incidents because the MSM is incredibly biased towards hoplophobia.
And there is always the danger of the guy on meth. You need to break a hip bone or worse to stop them.
***You could always carry that .50 caliber Barret sniper rifle. Meth dudes are just as afraid of guns as ordinary dudes, for the most part.
The only way to survive is to totally disable the bad guy immediately. Killing him is of zero benefit if he lives long enough to kill you.
***You’ve pushed the discussion into such an extreme corner case that I feel it is necessary to remind you that the .50 caliber Barrett sniper rifle doesn’t really fit in your back pocket.
In my opinion,
***Which seems like you’ve gone out of your way to push as a corner case...
9MM is the absolute minimum for self defense...
***And in others’ opinions, .45 is the absolute minimum. But what happens with that .45 is that it won’t fit in the wife’s purse or it prints out when carried or is uncomfortable so... it gets left behind. That would point to the “Wallet Gun” as the more useful gun for carrying around. https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/09/01/potd-wallet-pistols/
and ammo must be very carefully selected.
***Yup.
Lol….. yeah… should have specified they were different snakes. :)
Whatever you say.
Very true. And I’m willing to bet that they were required to have the right ammo, but put the reduced loads in there because they didn’t like that snap of the .357, which can be a monster for some.
I’m still amazed to this day how long the bad guy lasted though.
I would say that .380 acp is the minimum, normally.
I learned long ago that there are people who know the answer to everything. No way that you reply to every thing they throw at you.
Even at that, most of your remarks are off the wall. The Barret .50 has zero to do with concealed carry.
As for .45’s .357’s, etc. I am only 5’9’’ (shrunk from old age). I weigh only 170, yet I carry at different times according to whether I am in the woods or in town or in between, everything from .357 GP 100 to .45 colt to 1911’s in both .45 and 9mm, with the 9mm being the least often. So your comments about what can and can not be concealed are out of ignorance.
All of them can be concealed to the point that the most ant-gun person will not see them. You just have to know how. I can conceal a Ruger Blackhawk with a 5 1/2” barrel as easy as a 5 shot mini.
I have told you the way it is. Take it or leave it, it is your life.
Good points, but one can do ALOT of training without firing a single round. In fact, the case can be made that most firearm training should be done, non-live fire.
Learning how to move and maintain sight picture, reload under stress and while moving, shoot with off hand, clear jammed actions, chambering with one arm, knife defense, maintaining possession of your arm in a physical, be comfortable sighting around cover and barricades, clearing.
Defense agaist an assailent can take many forms and addressing each proficiently takes practise and training state of mind.
Anyone can stand and fire at a target. But that is only a very small part of actually being able to HIT your target in a firefight, while moving around cover, with malfunctions, etc. That all is what goes into a higher hit probability, and more importantly, getting yourself and lovedones out without being hit.
Our defensive pistol training instructor had Dillion machines to load all his training ammo. About as cheap as you can get for respectable and representative training. Biggest thing is train with the equipment you plan on using. Train, train, train.
But hits arent the only thing. A defender needs to shoot to incapacitate until the threat is over. For me, that is my 45acp, soon to trade up for a 10mm. I much prefer the incapacitation ability of a 45 dbl stack or 10 over a 22 or even 9. Thats my opinion.
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