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A Florida man was prosecuted for money laundering. He committed suicide prior to conviction. Could his estate's assets be seized by the probate court to satisfy a pending criminal charge which include a monetary element?
Self | December 5, 2021 | Self

Posted on 12/05/2021 10:40:33 AM PST by 4Runner

Or do penalties owed the state for the commission of a crime end at the grave? Google can't (or won't) respond intelligently to this query. I've also asked an attorney, he had no answer. All I know is, the penalty for conviction for money laundering in Florida is incarceration in the state penitentiary for an extended period of time, plus the requirement that the convicted party repay to the state double the amount of money originally laundered! Thanks for any insight you all may be able to provide. (Yes, I've pledged a monthly contribution today.)


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: florida; floridaman; moneylaundering; probatelaw
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1 posted on 12/05/2021 10:40:33 AM PST by 4Runner
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To: 4Runner

why not? they want to tax you after you die.


2 posted on 12/05/2021 10:42:57 AM PST by mylife (Joe Biden is like bald tires in the rain, Alec Baldwin with a gun....)
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To: 4Runner

He was never convicted. Kenneth Lay was found guilty and had appealed his conviction when he died from a heart attack. His victims were upset because his estate remained in tact because the conviction was in an appellate process. I don’t know if the death being suicide would make a difference.


3 posted on 12/05/2021 10:45:19 AM PST by MHT
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To: 4Runner

“...repay to the state double the amount of money originally laundered!”

“Repay”? That sounds like “Gun Buyback”.


4 posted on 12/05/2021 10:48:46 AM PST by Born to Conserve
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To: 4Runner

If there’s no conviction, I don’t see how you can apply criminal penalties.


5 posted on 12/05/2021 10:49:09 AM PST by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: MHT

Now in a case that was in the appellate stage, I could see things being different than if the person was never convicted on the first place.


6 posted on 12/05/2021 10:50:43 AM PST by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: 4Runner

The monetary penalty is a penalty for conviction. Unless and until the deceased is convicted post mortem, I would say no. If there is a separate civil offense, the state may be able to sue the estate.


7 posted on 12/05/2021 10:55:32 AM PST by pierrem15 ("Massacrez-les, car le seigneur connait les siens" )
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To: 4Runner

Here is some insight:

http://yslaw.ca/what-happens-to-criminal-charges-when-the-accused-is-deceased/


8 posted on 12/05/2021 11:04:12 AM PST by gloryblaze
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To: pierrem15
Unless and until the deceased is convicted post mortem, I would say no.

Yes that's what I was considering as a remote possibility.

9 posted on 12/05/2021 11:04:47 AM PST by 4Runner
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To: pierrem15

In CA that would be the correct answer


10 posted on 12/05/2021 11:05:12 AM PST by j.havenfarm (20 years on Free Republic, 12/10/20! More than 3700 replies and still not shutting up!)
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To: 4Runner

It the State believes the person laundered money, they can lock up the estate until such time the State is satisfied with the judgement.


11 posted on 12/05/2021 11:08:58 AM PST by CodeToad (Arm up! They Have!)
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To: 4Runner

It depends on whether the prosecution had asserted jurisdiction over the property before the man died. I was a California attorney for 40 years, and California law has provisions for this. Florida I don’t know about. The abstract legal term is called “in rem” jurisdiction and, technically, the prosecution places a hold called a “lien” on the money. Most commonly here, this occurs as part of a drug prosecution.


12 posted on 12/05/2021 11:09:45 AM PST by Thud
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To: 4Runner
They can not punish him unless he has been arrested, charged, tried, convicted and sentenced and started serving that sentence.

However, there is this delightful little thing called civil asset forfeiture which does not require you to be even arrested where they just take your stuff and say you have to prove that your stuff is innocent.

Which is why you are not getting an answer.

Because theses things are both true.

13 posted on 12/05/2021 11:10:18 AM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (add a dab of lavender in milk, leave town with an orange and pretend you're laughing with it)
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To: gloryblaze

Thanks for the link, nice hunting.


14 posted on 12/05/2021 11:10:47 AM PST by 4Runner
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To: 4Runner

As a layman, I’d say that if the judgement or order issued by the Probate Court existed before the suicide, then the assets are fair game. JMO


15 posted on 12/05/2021 11:12:47 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear; Thud

Comments 12 & 13 definitely scary stuff. Will be checking these out. Thank you both kindly.


16 posted on 12/05/2021 11:19:23 AM PST by 4Runner
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To: 4Runner
I know this much. In some civil matters, such as libel, if a lawsuit is filed, and the plaintiff dies, the plaintiff's estate inherits the lawsuit and can proceed.

John sues Bill for libel. Then John dies before the trial begins. John's estate inherits John's right to damages, if any, and the trial can proceed.

But if John merely plans to sue Bill, but John dies before filing suit, then John's claim dies with him. There is no lawsuit for the estate to inherit, and the estate cannot file one.

I suppose that in many cases where one party dies, the determining factor is whether the suit was filed (is already in existence) before the party died.

17 posted on 12/05/2021 11:20:32 AM PST by Angelino97
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To: Angelino97

Not entirely correct. It frequently happens in civil wrongful death lawsuits brought by the survivors of the dead person, or by the representative of the dead person’s estate, or the guardian for the minor dependent(s) of the dead person. Clearly, such deaths (traffic crashes, for example) occur without the dead person having filed or planned a lawsuit against the accused/responsible “killer.” Such lawsuits heavily focus on what the death “costs” the estate or the survivor in terms of lost income, companionship, parental guidance, etc. The definition of survivor depends on the state and the court, though. A spouse and minor children are definite and obvious, but a parent might not be able to sue for the loss of an adult child and recover money paid directly to the parents, but they might be able to sue and recover money to pay for hospital expenses before the death, college costs for minors, etc. Again, depends on the particular jurisdiction and court, and the facts of the case.


18 posted on 12/05/2021 12:14:00 PM PST by Notthemomma ( )
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To: 4Runner

Maybe the government can exhume his body and desecrate his corpse. That might satiate their blood lust


19 posted on 12/05/2021 12:18:24 PM PST by grumpygresh (Civil disobedience by jury nullification. )
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To: 4Runner

No. The conviction will be reversed if he was dead at the time he was convicted. In a lot of states (maybe not florida) even if you die before the appeal process is completed the case is dismissed.


20 posted on 12/05/2021 12:20:46 PM PST by Brilliant
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