[Persevero]

Some will say without the shot there would have been more.

Some will say the shot didn’t work.

Some will say the shots made it worse.

With no honest science or vetted control group how can we prove anything? What a mess.

[CatOwner]

Some will say without the shot there would have been more.

Some will say the shot didn’t work.

Some will say the shots made it worse.

With no honest science or vetted control group how can we prove anything? What a mess.

Precisely where I stand.

[Gene Eric]

The data is indeed a mess. And it’s the biggest numbers that put us in proximity of the truth. And those numbers do not speak to vax success — and that’s not to suggest clinical failure.

[entropy12]

I got the jabs 7 months ago, liberated my activities, even took in a cruise in September, going on another beginning of November. And NO covid anywhere in my body.

[Steve_Seattle]

Most people want to provide a simple explanation for what has happened, but the data resists simple explanations. We were originally told that the Delta variant was more contagious but less lethal than the original virus. If that is true, why do we already have more deaths than last year with ten weeks still to go?

In many areas, cases and deaths have been multiple times higher than at the same time last year despite the fact that more than half of the adult population is vaccinated. How can that be?

Both high- and low-vax states have seen huge rises followed by - in some cases like Florida - huge drops. Why?

We need data that is more nuanced as to why the effects of Covid vary so widely - from asymptomatic to death - other than the usual line about "co-morbidities." I think there is more to it than that.

We also need better and more honest evaluations of the various preventatives and treatments that have been used - HCQ, Ivermectin, monoclonal antibodies, Vitamins C and D3 and K2, zinc, quercetin, L-Lysine, NAC, and all the others. Do they work? How well? For whom? When?

Finally, and perhaps above all, we need an honest discussion of the efficacy and safety of the vaccines. Reports on their efficacy seem to vary from day to day. Health officials tell us they are safe, but the VAERS database says they are not. Why do these sometimes horrific side-effects occur in some people, but not in others? Why are so many different side effects being reported?

The sad and dangerous thing is that this virus - and the vaccines and other proposed treatments - have been politicized from the start. It has become more a battle of opposing wills than of science versus fiction: "Take the vaccine, or else," versus, "You can't make me."

[DSH]

Some will say without the shot there would have been more.

Some will say the shot didn’t work.

Some will say the shots made it worse.

With no honest science or vetted control group how can we prove anything? What a mess.

Yes. Which is why of late I've tried to focus on what data we have.

For instance, data from the CDC, updated as of today, indicate that there were 43,415 deaths *involving COVID in the U.S. this past month, September 2021. These CDC data further indicate that in September 2020, there were 19,138 deaths involving COVID nationwide -- i.e., 24,277 more deaths in September 2021 than a year ago this same time (an 126% increase).

All but six states (i.e., Connecticut, Nebraska, North Carolina, North Dakota, Rhode Island, and South Dakota) and the District of Columbia experienced at least some increase in deaths involving COVID in the last month as compared to September 2020).

In September 2020, no one in the U.S. had yet been vaccinated for COVID. As of last month, millions had been.

Here we have a simple, apples-to-apples comparison, on a large scale, from the same time period. Even setting aside critically important issues of vaccine safety, in what respect are the vaccines working?

_________

*For these purposes, the CDC defines a "death involving COVID" in these terms: "Deaths with confirmed or presumed COVID-19, coded to ICD–10 code U07.1."

[Blood of Tyrants]

There is a control group. It is the people who have refused to get the jab.