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LENR Asked & Answered Thread
Free Republic ^ | 10/4/2021 | Kevmo

Posted on 10/04/2021 10:08:00 AM PDT by Kevmo

This is a rare combination thread with another Asked & Answered thread on Vortex-L combined with some Vanity Level thoughts on LENR.

Asked & Answered on Vortex-L

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Recently the sidebar moderator posted this about LENR:

Updated No Internal Trolling Rules for FR per Jim Robinson

If someone says stop, then stop. Do not enter onto a thread on a topic you don't like just to disrupt, rattle cages, poke sticks, insult the regulars, or engage in trolling activities, etc. ~Jim Robinson

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The issue isn't whether we allow skepticism, it is whether we allow hyperskeptics and skeptopaths to ruin the scientific dialog. Such FReepers as who persist in polluting these threads have been asked to leave, and we are asking that they open their own threads if they have comments.

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Sidebar Moderator Comments about LENR

Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

This topic has a following, people who wish to learn and discuss the materials presented.

Please refrain from posting anything that doesn’t legitimately address the issue.

Something is going on in this segment of science. There are a considerable number of research groups studying the matter.

19 posted on 7/19/2021, 6:45:09 PM by Sidebar Moderator

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We recently had a person come onto our LENR thread and turn it into a bunch of nonsense in order to hijack the thread.

There was a time when I realized that generating Asked & Answered topics as a result of our collective learnings from the controversial topic of Certifigate would have been far more effective in dealing with trolls. When the certifigate trolls would go over the same nonsense again and again, it would have been far more effective to point them to a thread that covered the "same bs, different day" approach so that lurkers could see the trolls were not in it for conservatism nor getting to the bottom of the issues nor constitutionalism, they were just trolls hiding behind the skirts of a loud crowd. Certifigate Postmortem

LENR/Cold Fusion is a controversial subject. We as a community need to dig down under the controversy to see where the science will take us rather than endlessly having to deal with attempts at threadjacking.

So I will implement those learnings and put up as many links for LENR as time allows.


TOPICS: Science
KEYWORDS: askedanswered; cmns; coldfusion; coldfusionfaq; delicate; fragile; frailtender; hopium; huh; lenr; lenraskedanswered; shatterable; soft; vanity; whimpy; wut
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Asked & Answered: Basic Derision
41 posted on 10/16/2021 6:16:37 PM PDT by Kevmo (I’m immune from Covid since I don’t watch TV.🤗)
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Ooops, that was supposed to be scrubbed of swear words...

Re: [Vo]:Asked & Answered: Derision
Kevin O’Malley Thu, 15 Aug 2013 16:46:54 -0700

Basic derision

***That’s all the skeptopaths seem to be able to muster. They can’t
counteract the science. They downshift into ridicule because they can get
away with it. It’s basically like saying, “hey, look, I can be a first class jerk
and get away with it, so that’s what I’m going to do.” It does NOTHING to
further the science. There isn’t even an attempt to refute the science
behind the claims.

The same thing happened to the Wright brothers for 5 years between the time
they first flew an airplane in 1903 and the time they had a contract to
demo against in 1908. What happened to those skeptopaths in 1904? They
were utterly discredited, but within a few weeks of the Wright brothers
demonstration, they were spouting off yet again about how things should be
done differently, better, more to their liking. It’s horse manure.


42 posted on 10/16/2021 6:18:27 PM PDT by Kevmo (I’m immune from Covid since I don’t watch TV.🤗)
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Repeat it "reliably" and you’d have trillion dollar invention. No one has.
***Moving the goalposts. Dolly the Sheep was replicated ONCE, and 0.1% of the attempts at replication end up in failure, just like early semiconductor days.

Moving the Goalposts on Free Republic Vortex-L moving goalposts

LENR Forum moving goalposts

Vortex-L more skeptopathy

LENR Forum more moving goalposts

Vortex-L more skeptopathy

LENR Forum more moving goalposts

more vortex-L

more skeptopathy LENR Forum

more vortex-L

43 posted on 10/17/2021 6:59:45 PM PDT by Kevmo (I’m immune from Covid since I don’t watch TV.🤗)
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Example from Roger Anderton video on scientists moving the goalposts against Einstein

Re: [Vo]:Asked & Answered
ROGER ANDERTON Sun, 17 Oct 2021 04:28:36 -0700
"This doesn't happen in any other area of science."

I point out in my videos -> moving goalposts happens all the time in Einstein's relativity -> relativists claim one thing one moment and move goalposts and claim something different later.


Special Relativity moving goalposts - the clock hypothesis

Special Relativity moving goalposts - one way and two way lightspeed
Special Relativity moving goalposts: Minkowski

even for covid19 pandemic the goalposts are moved -> Covid pandemic moving goalposts
covid19 pandemic the goalposts moved

Moving goalposts is the preferrred method of doing things in science, but often scientists don't like to admit that.

Ideally the method is -> to test a theory -> but in practice that rarely ever happens, and the theory is saved by moving its goalposts.

44 posted on 10/17/2021 7:45:14 PM PDT by Kevmo (I’m immune from Covid since I don’t watch TV.🤗)
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​ Cold Fusion is 25 ORDERS of MAGNITUDE better bang for the buck than Controlled Hot Fusion (CHF).


Also on Vortex-L

45 posted on 11/05/2021 9:48:09 AM PDT by Kevmo (I’m immune from Covid since I don’t watch TV.🤗)
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To: Kevmo

Your comment to Thomas Edison, discovering Tungsten worked on his 10,000th light bulb. “0.01%? You’re a failure.”

The fact is that the same technique to produce Dolly the Sheep has been replicated tens of thousands of times SINCE. Sooam Biotech creates 500 pigs a day using Dolly’s cloning process.

The great effect of Dolly’s cloning is that it proved that fetal stem cells were not necessary to clone.


46 posted on 12/03/2021 11:27:20 AM PST by dangus
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To: dangus

Your comment to Thomas Edison, discovering Tungsten worked on his 10,000th light bulb. “0.01%? You’re a failure.”
***NONSENSE. There have been hundreds of peer reviewed LENR replications but it is the comment of the gallery to THESE Thomas Edison’s that, since it can’t be reproduced 100% [perfect example of moving the goalpost] of the time, that the effect doesn’t exist. You have it completely backwards.

The fact is that the same technique to produce Dolly the Sheep has been replicated tens of thousands of times SINCE.
***At the time I pulled that comment out of Vortex-L, Dolly the Sheep had been replicated once.

Sooam Biotech creates 500 pigs a day using Dolly’s cloning process.
***And we regularly use microprocessors with millions of transistors. Early in the discovery process of transistors, they rarely worked. If the same standard being applied to LENR had been applied to Dolly or Semiconductors, we’d still be in the stone ages of such technology.

The great effect of Dolly’s cloning is that it proved that fetal stem cells were not necessary to clone.
***Interesting tidbit. Kind of like the tidbit that Einstein didn’t get his Nobel Prize for the theory of relativity but rather on his work with the photoelectric effect.


47 posted on 12/03/2021 5:50:10 PM PST by Kevmo (I’m immune from Covid since I don’t watch TV.🤗)
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To: Kevmo

>> At the time I pulled that comment out of Vortex-L, Dolly the Sheep had been replicated once. <<

So, basically, you’re arguing with me as if I’m wrong because you used an ancient, now-false source? Give the fusion reactor more time, and they’ll start replicating THAT over and over again. It’s the COLD FUSION that has never been replicated.


48 posted on 12/04/2021 3:58:03 AM PST by dangus
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To: Kevmo

Wait... with all the crazy changes to this thread, I’m not sure exactly what we’re disagreeing on. This is a mess.


49 posted on 12/04/2021 4:00:32 AM PST by dangus
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To: dangus

So, basically, you’re arguing with me as if I’m wrong because you used an ancient, now-false source?
***NO, not at all. It is an old, but not outdated source. Certainly not ancient. And kiss off for calling it a false source. It was true at the time. Feel free to argue against THAT. In addition we notice you don’t argue against the other applicable analogies such as semiconductors. Very typical of skeptopaths. Always moving the goalposts.

Give the fusion reactor more time, and they’ll start replicating THAT over and over again.
***And your point is????

It’s the COLD FUSION that has never been replicated.
***Ah hah! THAT is your point. Again, ASKED & ANSWERED. Hundreds of replications. https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/4000502/posts?page=6#6


50 posted on 12/04/2021 4:06:25 AM PST by Kevmo (I’m immune from Covid since I don’t watch TV.🤗)
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To: Kevmo

>> NO, not at all. It is an old, but not outdated source. Certainly not ancient. And kiss off for calling it a false source. <<

If it’s no longer true, it’s outdated.

>> How many times has the Pons-Fleischmann Anomalous Heating Event been replicated in peer reviewed journals? More than 153 times. <<

Look at your the titles. They include dozens of FAILED attempts to replicate; comments made in responses to being debunked; repeated references to the same event; repeated articles by the same person, including 18 consecutive articles by the same man, Arata; wholly unrelated experiments including potassium carbonate/nickel “excess heat”; even a claim to turn gold into iron! This is after more than three decades and hundreds of millions of dollars invested.


51 posted on 12/04/2021 7:42:30 AM PST by dangus
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To: dangus

If it’s no longer true, it’s outdated.
***I see you enjoy moving your own goalposts. At least we agree on it being outdated. But you’ll probably come up with some ridiculous excuse.

>> How many times has the Pons-Fleischmann Anomalous Heating Event been replicated in peer reviewed journals? More than 153 times. <<

Look at your the titles. They include dozens of FAILED attempts to replicate;
***Nonsense. Besides, if the affect is replicated even once, it’s replicated. Except in the minds of you skeptopaths who abuse science.

comments made in responses to being debunked;
***You read all those 153 replications? I sincerely doubt it. But if you read replication papers, you’ll find all kinds of that stuff.

repeated references to the same event;
***Yes, as is the case when they are all replicating the same event. You’re kinda looney there, dangus.

repeated articles by the same person,
***It is acceptable to have the biggest names in electrochemistry to repeat their replications. Except in the minds of skeptopaths.

including 18 consecutive articles by the same man, Arata;
***Yep, the guy who basically was in charge of Japan’s nuclear program for a whole generation. But skeptopaths like you don’t give guys like that any credibility.

wholly unrelated experiments including potassium carbonate/nickel “excess heat”;
***If the heat generated through these experiments is more than modern chemistry can explain then it is excess heat. Duhh. Gigantic duhh factor there.

even a claim to turn gold into iron!
***Transmutation of elements is one of the things that has been documented, proving it is a nuclear event that’s taking place.

This is after more than three decades and hundreds of millions of dollars invested.
***Not even close to 1% of the money wasted on Controlled Hot Fusion experiments which are still 50 years and hundreds of $Billions away from generating useful electricity [to use your moving-the-goalposts approach].


52 posted on 12/04/2021 8:18:07 AM PST by Kevmo (I’m immune from Covid since I don’t watch TV.🤗)
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To: All; y'all; et al; no one in particular; null and void

Interesting discourse about replications and money spent.

https://freerepublic.com/focus/chat/4036835/posts?page=69#69

Fortunes have been lost pursuing LENR over the past 3 decades from both government and private sources.
***Guvmint fortunes have been lost? I think you have your signals crossed because guvmint fortunes have been lost on Controlled HOT Fusion but very little guvmint money in comparison has been spent on cold fusion. It’s $Millions lost versus $Billions. Asked & Answered: Cold Fusion is 25 ORDERS of MAGNITUDE better bang for the buck than Controlled Hot Fusion (CHF).
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/4000502/posts?page=45#45

The reason funding from private and government sources has mostly dried up is because after tireless
***More like cursory. From the asked & answered thread, a quote from Jed Rothwell:

Actually, to be a little more historically accurate, they did not try to replicate P&F. They tried to replicate one aspect of P&F, which unfortunately, P&F themselves got wrong. What they did in most cases was: set up an electrochemical cell with a palladium cathode and heavy water, and then look for neutrons. They did not look for excess heat, and they did not measure some critical parameters such as loading. P&F reported neutrons, but most people soon concluded that part of their paper was wrong. Fleischmann himself thought it was a mistake. He told me that in person, at MIT. Excess heat is the most critical parameter. It is the “principal signature of the reaction” as Fleischmann put it. If you don’t see excess heat, you don’t have cold fusion, so there is no point to looking for anything else. It is like fishing in a dry hole, as Ikegami put it. The other mistake made by many hot fusion and high energy physicists was to do the experiment without consulting with electrochemists. They made many mistakes. Enough to eliminate any chance of success. As I put it, they were trying to tune a piano with sledge hammer. See p. 11: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJlessonsfro.pdf Electrochemists who reviewed other experiments discovered similar errors, such as confusing the anode and the cathode. I suppose that if a group of electrochemists were to try to build a Tokomak plasma fusion reactor without consulting with plasma physicists, they would make similar mistakes.
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3963819/posts?page=15#15

examination over months, years and decades with hundreds of millions of dollars being spent...
***of private money versus hundreds of billions of dollars in public money pissed down the CHF rathole.

Fleischmann and Pons’s observations have been thoroughly and completely discredited.
***They have been replicated hundreds of times by the top notch names in electrochemistry. I’ll believe them over some skeptopath like you.
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3963819/posts


53 posted on 02/11/2022 8:44:46 AM PST by Kevmo (I’m immune from Covid since I don’t watch TV.🤗)
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To: Kevmo

How is “cold fusion” NOT like the Brooklyn bridge? Although also used in confidence scams, The Brooklyn bridge actually exists.


54 posted on 02/13/2022 2:36:47 PM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy - EVs a solution for which there is no problem)
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To: from occupied ga

Using cold fusion as the hook in a scam is relatively new. The two biggest players would be [supposedly] Andrea Rossi and Randell Mills.

Notably, BOTH of them no longer call their technology LENR.


55 posted on 02/13/2022 2:47:27 PM PST by Kevmo (I’m immune from Covid since I don’t watch TV.🤗)
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To: bigfoot

There are still some who put LENR at the same level as bigfoot.

https://www.mail-archive.com/vortex- href=”mailto:l@eskimo.com”>l@eskimo.com/msg120299.html

> The ongoing story here on Free Republic has been one where the detractors
> use ridicule, falsehoods, false argumentation, classic fallacies,
> misdirection, and all manner of unscientific and ugly behavior other than
> to discuss the science behind the claims. In order to fight fire with fire,
> I started calling these pathological skeptics “seagulls” but the moderator
> told me not to do that. So the skeptopaths are allowed certain tactics on
> FR but the LENR afficianados are not. It turns out that one of the
> moderators resigned, and his scientific background was lacking in terms of
> being able to properly absorb this material. At one time he even put it on
> the same level as BigFoot without backing it up when confronted:
> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/2917406/posts?page=3976#3976
>
>
> And even though the Anomalous Heat Effect has been replicated hundreds of
> times by more than a thousand scientists, even in mainstream peer-reviewed
> journals.


https://freerepublic.com/focus/chat/4058087/posts?page=9#9

To: ifinnegan
Bigfoot? Bigfoot hasn’t been replicated more than 150 times in peer-reviewed journals.

Asked & answered
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/4000502/posts?page=5#5

National Instruments is a multibillion dollar corporation that does not
need to stick its neck out for “bigfoot stories”. After noting more than
150 replications, they recently concluded that with so much evidence of
anomalous heat generation...
http://www.22passi.it/downloads/eu_brussels_june_20_2012_concezzi.pdf
Conclusion
• THERE IS AN UNKNOWN PHYSICAL EVENT and there is a need of better
measurements and control tools. NI is playing a role in accelerating
innovation and discovery.

The current state of the science of LENR is that the Pons Fleischmann
Anomalous Heat Effect has been replicated and it is an established
scientific fact. But it is not an established ENGINEERING field because the
effect is difficult to generate and there is still some lingering stigma
associated with the field. The level of pathological resistance this field
receives is unconscionable for those of us who seek scientific answers and
engineering solutions.

9 posted on 4/26/2022, 11:04:55 AM by Kevmo


56 posted on 04/26/2022 11:06:18 AM PDT by Kevmo (Give back Ukes their Nukes https://freerepublic.com/focus/news/4044080/posts)
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