Posted on 08/16/2021 3:03:53 PM PDT by RandFan
Just an observation.
With the attitude you have right off the get go, I am thinking your time at FR is going to be fraught with turmoil. Just a thought.
And no, 09/11 was not an inside job (Halliburton, etc.).
There's no need to rely on the out-dated neo-liberal interventionist propaganda you're spouting here...the Pentagon Papers were declassified a decade ago, and you can read them in their entirety.
While the Viet-minh takeover might have seemed like a threat to Western corporate interests in southeast Asia, like all nationalist movements it was no threat to the American people.
In fact, the real threat to America has always been the same global elites that you spent a career serving and who are right now ginning up the next conflict.
Wow. Whatever you're ingesting, you need to back off on the dose!
"Neoliberal"? You're talking to a guy who spent a year and a half of his life in that war and another 3 1/2 years recovering from wounds. "Neoliberal"? You are really spouting the propaganda the pro-enemy Left spouted back then, in between their visits with the enemy. You have just conveniently adopted the "I'll keep my self nice and safe from gunfire while spouting nonsense" part.
While you're at it, might as well sign up with the People's Coalition for Peace and Justice (the Communist Party) and get it over with.
The term accurately describes the out-dated global interventionist pap you're spouting...so learn to deal with it.
You are really spouting the propaganda the pro-enemy Left spouted back then, in between their visits with the enemy.
Vietnam never was an enemy of America... in fact Ho Chi Minh admired this country, studied the American revolution, and spent several years working in the United States prior to WW2.
Take a look at this 1945 photo and tell me if you recognize any faces.
_and_the_OSS_in_1945_cropped.jpg?itok=xXBtSR2A )
Comrade Ho wasn't satisfied with terrorizing the North after the French were defeated and immediately began a program of infiltration and terror in the South.
He was never a friend of us or of freedom and his campaign to kill off/imprison land owners and religious folks caused a wave of over one million refugees to flood south.
When Ho finally took his ride to Hell, the torture and isolation of our POWs immediately stopped.
You are a dupe.
FDR indicated he was going to attack Japan eventually. From the Japanese perspective, Pearl Harbor was a preemptive strike.
Patrick Buchanan presents evidence that FDR provoked Pearl Harbor: https://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/article/did-fdr-provoke-pearl-harbor/
Had FDR followed an aggressively America First policy, the Japanese would not have attacked Pearl Harbor.
America First works.
The America First movement was a slightly camouflaged pro-Nazi outfit that was initially supported by the American Communist Party but just while Stalin was making nice with Hitler. You absolutely sure you want to be identified with that?
Pat Buchanan is/was an idiot in foreign policy, starting with dodging the draft during Vietnam. It's very difficult for me to accept that somebody can supposedly love his country and yet fail to serve it when there's a war on. My grandfathers fought in WWI, my father and both uncles fought during WWII and my brother and I fought in Vietnam - it is and should be the first rite of passage for all men as citizens of our country.
Which means that you think that Japan was right to keep fighting in China?
No I believe that you are the one that needs to check your logic. I said nothing about China, and I sure as heck didn’t imply that what Japan did was ok.
I merely repeated something that I read - to explain further, Japan realized that the embargo was going to lead to their defeat and economic catastrophe, if they didn’t do something about it. They could have elected to leave China, but instead chose to bomb Pearl Harbor.
They chose most unwisely.
Embargoes and Trade wars sometimes bring about the desired results. Sometimes they lead to shooting wars. That’s just life in the real world.
The embargo didn't cause the war - it was Japan's unrestrained aggression and severely flawed military culture did.
The embargo didn’t cause the war - it was Japan’s unrestrained aggression and severely flawed military culture did.
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And once again you are guilty of faulty thinking. Quit trying so hard to paint crap that ain’t there.
I never said that the embargo caused the war. And I thought it was pretty darn clear the purpose was to make them get out of China-as I indicated that was a wiser choice.
I merely said that the embargo was a contributing factor to their ill-considered decision. Gheez.
Germany and Japan would have burned themselves out long before they got to us. They both over-extended. Germany was stopped at the Battle of Britain in the West, and Stalingrad in the East. It was decisively defeated (bled out) on the Eastern Front. American involvement might have extended WW2, but not changed its outcome.
As for moral issues, the Soviets had already murdered some 20 million people before WW2, and were still doing so. The NKVD never stopped executing innocent civilians during WW2. So, are you okay with letting -- even defending -- Stalin just kill off his victims? Are they less human than Hitler's victims?
See, I can turn your question around.
Japan running rampant over the western Pacific without our entry into the war would have solidified Japan's holdings and given them all of the resources they needed to further prosecute the war. Without the US in things, Australia and likely India would have fallen and Japan would likely also have attacked the Soviets from the Pacific side.
We could have avoided the war at first, but they would have come after us eventually - and chances are, they would have been far more effective at that point against us.
The "America First" movement was a dangerous distraction.
"This is a great day" - RandFan
“It was a horrible decision going into the Middle East. I know the Bush family will not be happy, but I believe it was the worst decision in the history of our country when we decided to go into the Middle East.”
Trump on ‘Hannity’
ergo getting out of places like Afghanistan = definitely a great day. Preach it
Summing up two decades of American efforts in Afghanistan, Trump described the initial decision to invade in October 2001 as “the worst decision ever made” and argued that the US should have limited its retaliation for the 9/11 attacks to airstrikes.
—
He is right again. Reversing the decision is the best thing Trump did. He put in motion this withdrawal. Biden did not express any of the opinions he spouted the other day as a senator or VP. He was a big supporter of the war.
Ho Chi Minh was first and foremost a Vietnamese nationalist who adamantly opposed colonialism in Indochina. Ho turned to Communism in the 1920s after first trying to get France to accept his ideas for an independent Vietnam. Ho approached the West again about an independent Vietnam right after WW2, but was rejected this time by the United States.
Ho lived and worked all over the world including France, Britain, China (where he was thrown in prison), and the United States before visiting Russia. His Viet-minh forces fought the Japanese in Indochina and he would have made a useful partner in 'containing China' (which was the real purpose of American involvement) if Truman and his cronies had the foresight to see that an independent Vietnam was in their long term strategic interest.
Quit trying to feed your communist crap to those of us who saw it first hand.
In the 1910s, Ho was living in Paris, working as a noodle & pastry cook. No joke.
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