On this date in 1863

[Bull Snipe]

Confederate General John Pemberton surrendered the city of Vicksburg MS and its 29 thousand defenders to Union Major General Ulysses S. Grant. This was the second Confederate General to surrender his army to Grant. Defeated, in battle at Gettysburg, by General George Meades Army of the Potomac; General Robert E. Lee’s Army of Northern Virginia begins its withdrawal from Pennsylvania. About one third of Lee's Army were casualties.

Quite a 4th of July for the Union.

[backwoods-engineer]

The South will rise again.

[Fiji Hill]

I read that for decades Independence Day was not celebrated in Vicksburg.

[NohSpinZone]

The capture of Vicksburg is famous. What seems to be less well-known and discussed is how relatively easily New Orleans fell to the Union. That’ll be my next deep dive in my ongoing education of the WBTS.

[Veto!]

An ancestor fought in that war, died. Our family always claimed he was a Northerner but I did the research and learned he was a Southerner. No matter, all were brave young men. Happy Independence Day.

[Bull Snipe]

I’ve heard somewhere that it wasn’t until sometime in WWII that Vicksburg held a 4th of July celebration.

[Levy78]

Correct. People resent their homes being invaded by authoritarian libs.

[Fiji Hill]

My mother’s family, descended from German-speakers from France who arrived in the middle of the 18th century fought on both sides during the Civil War.

[Veto!]

Proverbial “brother against brother.”

[Hootowl]

My greatX3 grandfather and two of his brothers enlisted in an Illinois regiment when the war started but after their first major engagement apparently decided war was not their thing and all three deserted. On the other hand my greatX5 grandfather served through the Revolutionary War, making me eligible to join the Daughters of the American Revolution, except for being born male.

[Leaning Right]

> making me eligible to join the Daughters of the American Revolution, except for being born male <

Well, you could self-identify as a female. That’s all the rage these days. Just kidding, of course. But that really would put the Daughters of the American Revolution on the spot.

[chajin]

Our family always claimed he was a Northerner but I did the research and learned he was a Southerner.

Mine was the mirror image; when I researched my family 40 years ago, I discovered that my ggrandfather from Arkansas fought for the North unlike what my father had been told, along with his little brother, while their two older brothers were Confederates.

[x]

I’ve heard somewhere that it wasn’t until sometime in WWII that Vicksburg held a 4th of July celebration.

Probably from Ken Burns' documentary series. There is some question about whether that's true. Does it refer to official city celebrations or to what people in the city were doing on their own? Did it mean nobody had the day off to eat hot dogs, or just that the city didn't have a parade or set off fireworks?

Celebrations of the 4th of July, the day of surrender, were irregular until 1947. The Vicksburg Evening Post of July 4, 1883, called July 4 "the day we don't celebrate", and another Vicksburg newspaper, the Daily Commercial Appeal, in 1888 hoped that a political victory would bring an enthusiastic celebration the following year. In 1902, the 4th of July saw only "a parade of colored draymen". In 1947, the Jackson Clarion-Ledger stated that the city of Vicksburg did not celebrate the 4th of July again until 1945, and then it was celebrated as Confederate Carnival Day. A recent scholar disagrees, stating that large Fourth of July celebrations were being held by 1907, and informal celebrations before that. A large parade was held in 1890. -- Wikipedia

What is known is that there were large public celebrations in 1945 and 1946 (which some preferred to call "The Carnival of the Confederacy") and again in 1947 when Eisenhower came to town. The city fathers, the newspapers and possibly the National Park Service wanted to play up the post war celebrations to attract tourists and raise the city's media profile.

[blueunicorn6]

Joy Behar was only 25 years old.

[Veto!]

I may or may not be eligible for DAR. Talked to some members about it but DAR ladies were insufferable b’s.So we sit happily on the sidelines and wave the flag today. Gotta go make potato salad for neighborhood picnic.

[Bull Snipe]

That’s why the people in Pennsylvania had such a big 4th of July party. The Democrats had been soundly thrashed and were retreating back to Virginia

[jeffersondem]

“Quite a 4th of July for the Union.”

Even southerners could not image just how toxic the coming Union victory would be.

Still, there are those today that say everything turned out just fine once the federal governemnt was in total control.

[mac_truck]

An ancestor fought in that war, died. Our family always claimed he was a Northerner but I did the research and learned he was a Southerner. No matter, all were brave young men. Happy Independence Day.

A little known fact... roughly 1 in 10 Southerners fought for the Union.

[BroJoeK]

Levy78: "People resent their homes being invaded by authoritarian libs."

By which you mean Radical Democrats, then as now willing to fight & destroy their country to preserve their own legal privileges over other Americans.
In the 1860s Radical Democrat (aka "Confederates") forces invaded Union lands of:

1. Maryland
2. Kentucky
3. Missouri
4. Pennsylvania
5. Ohio
6. Indiana
7. Kansas
8. Oklahoma
9. New Mexico
10. West Virginia
11. Others too...

jeffersondem: "Even southerners could not image just how toxic the coming Union victory would be."

Sure, a lot of slavers had problems with the new 13th, 14th & 15th Amendments, but it didn't last long -- as soon as Reconstruction ended in 1876, Radical Democrats went to work nullifying those Amendments for nearly 100 years.

Today Radical Democrats are as violent as they were in the 1860s, but our problem is that Republicans no longer have the courage & backbones of our 1860s' ancestors.

jeffersondem: "Still, there are those today that say everything turned out just fine once the federal governemnt was in total control."

The Federal government was never in total control after the election of 1876 ending Reconstruction.
Then Radical Democrats took over the South and effectively reversed Civil War outcomes.

[BroJoeK]

mac_truck: "A little known fact... roughly 1 in 10 Southerners fought for the Union."

It was more than that in some states, less in others.

1. Louisiana = 30% served the Union army
2. Mississippi = 16% served the Union army
3. Florida = 12% served the Union army
4. Deep South averaged 11% served the Union.

1. Tennessee = 27% served the Union
2. Arkansas = 19% served the Union
3. Virginia = 17% served the Union
4. North Carolina = 7% served the Union
5. Upper South averaged 19% served the Union

1. Kentucky = 73% served the Union
2. Missouri = 73% served the Union
3. Maryland = 63% served the Union
4. Border States averaged 71% served the Union

Roughly 1/4 of those Southern Union troops were colored troops.