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How Broad is Covid Immunity? Fear of mutations that make their way around antibodies or vaccines is likely misplaced.
Pandemics, Data and Analytics ^
| 03/16/2021
| Dr. Michael Yeadon and Marc Girardot
Posted on 03/16/2021 8:40:42 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
Fear of mutations that make their way around antibodies or vaccines is likely misplaced.
As the SARS-CoV-2 epidemic continues across the globe, many genetic modifications have started to appear in the virus. These are being sequenced, analysed and monitored by many scientists. This well-known phenomenon occurs continuously for Influenza as well as for Coronaviruses. Health authorities and mainstream media have been very wary of supposed heightened risk profiles of these new variants. They are also adamant about a potential risk of evasion from immunity, whether that immunity was acquired via infection or vaccination.
Some evolutionary virologists consider that viruses “attenuate” or evolve towards less virulent forms. Some feel that novel pharmaceutical and non-pharmaceutical interventions – or specific circumstances – could possibly disrupt this evolutionary process and favour a more severe variant or threaten acquired immunity.
The recent downward trends in cases and in hospitalizations across the globe seem to indicate that the virus has probably not mutated in any way that would make it much more dangerous and that a healthy immune system is very capable of dealing with these new forms of the SARS-CoV-2 virus. Indeed, patients have been shown to recover naturally in most instances just like they did from the original form of Covid-19. The paucity of confirmed re-infections with the virus, accompanied by clinical symptoms, despite hundreds of millions of infections over the last year, is consistent with a lack of “immune escape”.
Acquired immunity is fundamentally based on the recognition of a large series of three-dimensionally shaped protein markers called “epitopes”. These markers are formed from a virus’s genetic code. When a virus mutates it can stop expressing some of these proteins, and, in principle, trump the immune arsenal specifically targeting these. And indeed, if all immunity against SARS-CoV-2 were based on one or two epitopes, and if those markers were to change, immunity would mechanically be broken.
But SARS-CoV-2 is a large virus with approximately 30,000 RNA bases (10,000 amino acids). Currently, the greatest difference between any ‘mutant variant’ and the original Wuhan sequence is limited to 26 nucleotide mutations. The genomic diversity of SARS-CoV-2 in circulation on different continents is fairly uniform. We know that the mutation rate in SARS-CoV-2 is slower than other RNA viruses because it benefits from a proofreading enzyme which limits potentially lethal copying errors. To date, these mutations have caused changes in less than 0.3% of the entire virus sequence. All variants are therefore currently 99.7% similar to the original Wuhan viral sequence.
To date no robust scientific evidence proves that any of variants identified are more transmissible or deadly than the original. By definition, variants are clinically identical. Once there is a clinical difference then a new “strain” of virus has emerged. Prior knowledge of viral mutation shows they usually evolve to become less deadly and more transmissible. This optimises their chance of spreading, as dead hosts tend not to spread viruses, and very ill hosts have reduced mobility and thus limit contact with others.
Natural immunity to SARS-CoV-2 is gained in the immune system by the body ‘cutting up’ the virus into hundreds of pieces. Multiple pieces are used to develop a suitably diverse immune response to many parts of the virus. Specialised immune cells will launch an immune response if exposed to the same ‘learned’ viral fragment in the future. Prior immunity gained from the original SARS-CoV-2 should work perfectly well against any new ‘mutant variant’, given the 99.7% sequence similarity.
The La Jolla Institute for Immunology recently published a paper which is a tour de force: a comprehensive assessment of the role played by thousands of linear protein epitopes in the SARS-CoV-2 protein sequences in acquired immunity. Reassuringly, the human immune system uses several hundred of the theoretically possible protein epitopes. Each individual uses a diverse selection of at least 18 epitopes to form their antibody repertoire (humoral immunity) and a different, though overlapping, T cell repertoire targeting at minimum 30-40 epitopes (cellular immunity). This means that even if there are several changes in the virus’s RNA code and in its protein sequence, the majority of the epitopes will be unchanged. There is therefore no possibility that the human immune system will be fooled into regarding the variants as a new pathogen. Furthermore, even if a variant were to bypass some of the immune repertoire of an individual, this would be of no consequence for a population, due to the diversity of repertoires. The authors themselves conclude: “This analysis should allay concerns over the potential for SARS-CoV-2 to escape T cell recognition by mutation of a few key viral epitopes”.
mRNA vaccines currently used for vaccination—Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna—present the immune system with a large repertoire of targets, if not quite as large as a natural immune response. This is even more true of more traditional vaccines—Russia’s Sputnik and China’s Sinovac—which present an even wider repertoire. Given the breadth of immunization and the relative independence of these immune responses, we believe that both humoral and cellular immunities will remain effective, even if one or several key immunological targets are erased.
Multiple confirming data points and experiments solidify this already robust scientific foundation: The prevalence of pre-existing immunity to SARS-CoV2 found in multiple studies (Study) (Study) (Study) further validates our thinking, both for humoral immunity (Study) (Study) and cellular immunity. Many seem to have benefitted from a form of immunity even though they had never met the actual virus, nor been vaccinated. These have gained their immunity from past epidemics and make up the large contingent of asymptomatics. The Tübingen University Hospital near Stuttgart, Germany, found as much as 81% of its samples were carrying pre-existing specific T cells. Most likely, past common cold coronaviruses have – in effect – played an immunization role against SARS-CoV-2. The same immunological mechanism has been proven to exist for influenza also.
Some are advocating the vaccination of people who have recovered from COVID-19. Natural immunization being the ultimate form of vaccination, we see absolutely no scientific nor medical justification for such a procedure. Even past infections by other forms of common cold coronaviruses have been found to protect from SARS-CoV-2. Injecting a vaccine should never be considered a trivial event. The decision should be based on a well thought out risk-benefit analysis. There is absolutely no patient benefit in vaccinating an immune person, only risks and possible unnecessary downsides such as fever.
The evidence above supports that immunity evasion – though a theoretical possibility – is very unlikely. Mutant variants, emerging overseas or domestically, are an inevitable biological reality once a virus is in the population. Closing international borders will not stop new mutations of the SARS-CoV-2 virus circulating in the population. It is a futile endeavour with no scientific basis.
Furthermore, immunity evasion may not be the most pressing issue with regards to COVID-19 and vaccine effectiveness. Could vaccines be partly ineffective for other reasons? Indeed, vaccines are different from drugs in that their mode of action is indirect. Vaccines rely entirely on a functional immune system. However, those suffering from severe forms of COVID-19 have predominantly been shown to be either very old and/or very sick with a weakened immune system. A recent survey from Yale University highlighted that blood samples taken from severe COVID-19 patients were lacking dendritic cells – a fundamental trigger of immune response – by a factor between 2 and 4. A deficiency in these signaling cells would thus significantly delay the immune response, giving the virus the opportunity to replicate exponentially, and present the immune system with a radically different context: a propagated virus and inflammation disseminated throughout the body. A vaccine’s mode of action would be subject to the same delay. Although vaccines could be helpful for patients with mildly deficient immune systems, they would most likely not save very old patients with advanced immune senescence. Thus overconfidence in vaccine effectiveness for the very old could be a major risk, and mitigation treatments and immune boosting strategies should instead be contemplated.
TOPICS: Health/Medicine; Science; Society
KEYWORDS: coronavirus; covid19; immunity; mutations; variants
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To: SeekAndFind
Do the Pfizer and Moderna ones create antibodies?
To: nickcarraway
RE: Do the Pfizer and Moderna ones create antibodies?
Of course. How else can you determine immunity against the virus?
To: SeekAndFind
Actual informed and knowledgeable rational analysis.
4
posted on
03/16/2021 8:55:35 PM PDT
by
ifinnegan
( Democrats kill babies and harvest their organs to sell)
To: SeekAndFind
Now who can argue with that?
5
posted on
03/16/2021 8:56:29 PM PDT
by
frogjerk
(I will not do business with fascists)
To: SeekAndFind
Last paragraph..
“Although vaccines could be helpful for patients with mildly deficient immune systems, they would most likely not save very old patients with advanced immune senescence. Thus overconfidence in vaccine effectiveness for the very old could be a major risk, and mitigation treatments and immune boosting strategies should instead be contemplated.”
6
posted on
03/16/2021 8:56:36 PM PDT
by
goodnesswins
(The issue is never the issue. The issue is always the revolution." -- Saul Alinksy)
To: ifinnegan
Yes - I particularly like the following -
Some are advocating the vaccination of people who have recovered from COVID-19. Natural immunization being the ultimate form of vaccination, we see absolutely no scientific nor medical justification for such a procedure. Even past infections by other forms of common cold coronaviruses have been found to protect from SARS-CoV-2. Injecting a vaccine should never be considered a trivial event. The decision should be based on a well thought out risk-benefit analysis. There is absolutely no patient benefit in vaccinating an immune person, only risks and possible unnecessary downsides such as fever.
7
posted on
03/16/2021 8:57:51 PM PDT
by
frogjerk
(I will not do business with fascists)
To: frogjerk
It’s been absurd that people who’ve had it are getting vaccinated before others who haven’t
It’s absurd to think they need it, but if someone wants to get an unneeded vaccine it’s their choice just like people who don’t want to get vaccinated don’t have to. But they shouldn’t get it “free” nor before anyone who hasn’t had it and wants to be vaccinated.
8
posted on
03/16/2021 9:04:58 PM PDT
by
ifinnegan
( Democrats kill babies and harvest their organs to sell)
To: ifinnegan
I had the Wuhan in November, tested positive, had symptoms and recovered quickly. Head cold for 5 days - seemed like sense of smell was going but never did - no fever. After that I have so much less worry about getting it again.
I believe I even had it in the previous November when they said it wasn't here yet. BS. I had the worst upper-respitory cold/flu I ever had. Went to a walk-in and then my doctor which I never goto for a cold.
So I think when I tested positive I actually had it for the second time or the previous illness I had boosted my immunity to BatFlu.
My wife nor any of my daughters in my household ever got it. I certainly did not socially distance from my wife. She even got tested for antibodies not too long ago and it came back negative. The Szechuan sniffles are weird.
9
posted on
03/16/2021 9:12:35 PM PDT
by
frogjerk
(I will not do business with fascists)
To: SeekAndFind
Hell with it all. The scientists have no idea what it will mutate into next. I will wear the stupid useless mask when required. Other than that, I will live my remaining years in no fear. C’mon, man/lady...give me a hug!
10
posted on
03/16/2021 9:14:21 PM PDT
by
A Navy Vet
(USA Birth Certificate - 1776. Death Certificate - 2021.)
To: SeekAndFind
I think I sent that twice, but there is an opposing view link at the bottom of the second private message.
11
posted on
03/16/2021 9:25:23 PM PDT
by
DannyTN
To: nickcarraway
No, they artificially stimulate your immune system by inserting RNA that instructs your immune system to recognize and respond to a part of the characteristic covid spike protein
What could possibly go wrong with a manmade immune system?
12
posted on
03/16/2021 9:47:11 PM PDT
by
silverleaf
(In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.)
To: SeekAndFind
Either these guys are right ( hey, your worries about mutation are misplaced)
Or these guys are right
Viral immune escape
https://youtu.be/T0MCuPEVssc
We will know by years end, if vaccinated millions start getting sick from “ covid 21” .....the one that made Bill and Melinda Gates smile when he said the “next one” would get our attention
13
posted on
03/16/2021 9:52:48 PM PDT
by
silverleaf
(In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.)
To: frogjerk
Well I had the covid, symptoms and all and a positive test. I also had 2 shots of vaccine 3 weeks apart. The vaccinations both gave me symptoms like those that I experienced when I had the real thing. I had a perfectly good reason to take the vaccine both times and that was so that I could say I did.
14
posted on
03/16/2021 9:54:15 PM PDT
by
webheart
(COVID was not worth the economic misery that it took to keep me from getting it for 7 months..)
To: nickcarraway
Yes. Not only are antibodies created but cytoxic T-cells that release destructive molecules that destroys cells that are reproducing the C-virus. These antibodies are programmed to attack the C-virus’s Spike it uses to invade the cell and hijack it for reproduction. It’s like whacking off the dick of a horse. Similarly, the attack of the Spike, kills the virus.
15
posted on
03/16/2021 10:08:50 PM PDT
by
jonrick46
( Leftnicks chase illusions of motherships at the end of the pier.)
To: nickcarraway
The mRNA injections induce host cells to make Covid spike protein and the immune cells produce specific antibodies to that protein.
I would think that natural immunity would be better because it is a broader based immune response against the entire Covid virus not just the spike protein.
I think it’s better to achieve herd immunity via natural immunity among low risk groups, protect high risk groups and optimize prophylactic medications and anti-viral meds.
Here’s a new use anti viral that shows promise.
https://observer.com/2021/01/aplidin-covid-drug-cancer-treatment/
Aplidin used in multiple myeloma and Covid.
16
posted on
03/16/2021 10:09:04 PM PDT
by
grumpygresh
(Civil disobedience by jury nullification. )
To: SeekAndFind
17
posted on
03/16/2021 10:22:16 PM PDT
by
Slyfox
(Not my circus, not my monkeys )
To: grumpygresh
The covid shot is like introducing another mother and father into a family. The kids don’t know who to listen to and then there is rebellion.
18
posted on
03/16/2021 10:23:51 PM PDT
by
Slyfox
(Not my circus, not my monkeys )
To: goodnesswins
19
posted on
03/16/2021 11:24:26 PM PDT
by
NetAddicted
(Just looking)
To: frogjerk
But, other sources find that some mild cases do not have antibodies afterward (and who knows about asymptomatics).
https://www.livescience.com/why-lifelong-immunity.html
There is some evidence illnesses that do not progress past the upper respiratory system typically do not produce long lasting immunity.
All in all, I think the jury is very much “still out” on this.
20
posted on
03/17/2021 2:50:56 AM PDT
by
Paul R.
(You know your pullets are dumb if they don't recognize a half Whopper as food!)
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