Posted on 07/30/2020 12:11:42 AM PDT by L.A.Justice
EL PASO, Texas (KFOX14) — KFOX14 has learned a Ft. Bliss soldier was seriously injured during a training session last week when his tank was accidentally shot by another tank.
Now witnesses say the Army needs to be held accountable for the accident.
“The life of a soldier, potentially two soldiers, was put at risk,” said a witness to the accident.
Around 3 a.m. on Monday, July 20, a witness said he was watching a training session on Ft. Bliss where tanks were shooting live rounds at wooden targets.
“There was a live fire exercise going on, in which these tanks were basically simulating fighting against an enemy,” said the witness.
But during the exercise, the witness said one of the tanks accidentally identified another tank as a target, turning the simulated war game into the real thing.
(Excerpt) Read more at kfoxtv.com ...
Vox Day ran this story days ago.
Fort Hood Texas 1969-70
A friend was driving an M88 tank retriever(?)down a steep incline with an MP jeep blocking the trail/ redirecting him...
He said he had always complained about the brakes.
He said all their equipment was junk.
And then the jeep was nothing but junk.
This was the high point of his life.
Not familiar with the Abrams fire control system but, in the M60A1, in the sequence you left out one step. After the gunner identifies the target, the TC would have to range in on the target through the range finder so the computer could apply the correct super elevation for the round to reach the target. That would mean the TC would also be verifying the gunner identified the correct target. Other than actually firing the main gun, the gunner position is the most boring position to be in, you just ride along with absolutely no view of anything other than the inside walls of the tank.
but it was mostly peaceful, so it’s OK.
They took tanks away from Marines. Marines don’t dork around with tanks. (they may dork around personally though. hah)
It changes based on the version of the M1. The base M1 has laser range finding and it is generally the responsibility of the gunner to lase the target to determine the range in all variants. The gunner may or may not call out range to target as part of his “identified” call.
Here is an example on video of an M1A2 engaging a target.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC2ePKRvo9k
Transcript for others:
TC: “Gunner, HEAT, TC” - Gunner, engage the target in my sights with HEAT.
Gunner: “Identified!... Eight Eight Zero.” - I have found the target, it is at 880 meters’ range.
Loader: (loads HEAT projectile, steps back and disengages the loader safety) “UP!” - Breech is up, I am out of the way, you are clear to safely fire the main gun.
TC: “Fire.”
Gunner: “On the way.” (Fires main cannon.)
Loader: (re-engages loader safety)
TC: Cease fire.
Here’s The_Chieftain’s demonstration of how the Abrams’ fire control system works - he’s a former USAR Abrams track commander, among other things, former Irish Army who moved to the US and enlisted, currently a Major. He uses one of the current commercial simulator games to demonstrate the fire control systems of an M1A1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDs5oQW1vNA
Things have changed from 45 years ago. Sounds also like they stopped the 2 round engagement. Back then it was always 2 rounds to target.
Before laser rangefinder we usually ran with 1200m already indexed. A HEAT or SABOT round would be loaded depending on the most likely target, SABOT for T-62s and HEAT for BMPs. The command was gunner battlesight tank, identified, fire. Gunner would aim bottom center of mass. Given the speed of SABOT it was rather flat out to 2000m. If the round hit short the gunner was trained on BURST ON TARGET correction and a second round would be on target 5 seconds later.
When we got M60A2s the TC and gunner could range with the laser rangefinder.
Wow that was only 40 years ago. I am old.
Another female tank commander?
We had an incident at range in Korea. Night firing qualifier. Last target was a tank hull with IR. Morning time and sun coming up. Wouldn’t be fair to engage in daylight so was decided that would be first target for that tank to finish his qualifier the next night. Range was quiet all day, everyone sleeping, so that night the tank traveled the course to engage his target, 2 rounds, 2 hits. Then screaming was heard. There had been 2 locals salvaging magnesium from the night before, one inside and one outside the old tank hull. They figured they had time to leave the range when normally a tank would first start at the beginning of the qualifier. The guy that was inside the tank was completely devoid of a head and had a hand missing, the guy that was outside was rolling around on the ground screaming.
That went away with the improved munitions and digital fire control systems on Abrams, yes. On the other hand, they don’t end the engagement after firing (dunno if they did on the M60) - the track commander does target assessment while the round is in flight and will call corrections if needed - “Round is low/left/over,” etc. - and do post hit analysis. (It is very rare that the TC has to call for corrections, the digital fire control systems are extremely good, as Chieftain demonstrates in the simulator video. There are other world tanks that have come out since that are better or have more capabilities.) If the TC doesn’t call cease fire, the crew will stand ready to continue the engagement.
Here’s the original 1984 Army tech manual on the Abrams’ fire commands if you are curious as to how it differed back then. It’s pretty hefty at 295 pages and it’s changed even more with the follow-on models since 1984. https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a156801.pdf
The calling out for need for adjustment was used when the range finder was out. The M60 had two sight to use, the main periscope and a telescope aligned coaxingly with the main gun. It had ranges indexed into the sight the gunner could use to add or drop range, the periscope sighting system had no such ability.
That also had something to do with the fact that the current Abrams is a 70+ ton tank. This means that one of those giant LCAC hovercraft landing craft can deliver a whopping total of one to the beach. Bit of a problem if you’re expecting to do an amphibious landing and you can’t bring more than a handful to the fight. I believe the Marines are hoping to get some of the light tanks the Army is considering getting, because right now the M1A2C is too heavy for amphibious expeditionary landings.
In the Abrams, that’s done mostly if simulating manual firing or if the digital fire control system isn’t working. It is very unusual for the TC on an Abrams to have to call for adjustment in normal circumstances - the digital fire control system can and does automatically compensate for crosswinds, barrel droop, barrel wear, temperature, humidity, hull angle and more. Pretty amazing.
Also, Chieftain crawling around in an actual early Abrams: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aladW_D4nKU
question: what ejects from the breach and falls into the basket at the 23sec mark???
The current Abrams (NATO) 120mm tank round has a semi-combustible casing to avoid having bagged charges as in the M103 and to avoid having large heavy empty brass casings bouncing around in the turret after firing (also reducing round weight, etc). As such, most of the casing is burned upon firing and goes out the barrel with the rest of the carbon and such that is produced. The base is made of metal, contains the primer and performs the task of obturation when the round is fired - when the breech opens, the remaining metal base or cap is what you see ejecting. All of the rest of the cartridge has gone down the barrel.
You can see it in this cutaway:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/120mm_M829A2_APFSDS-T.jpg
thx...
i thought it looked like some kind of primer but it never occurred to me till you mentioned it that no case was ejected!
makes perfect sense now. is the case explosive also or just combustible?
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