Posted on 04/11/2020 8:27:31 AM PDT by cll
“The right to travel is part of the ‘liberty’ of which the citizen cannot be deprived without due process of law under the Fifth Amendment. If that ‘liberty’ is to be regulated, it must be pursuant to the law-making functions of the Congress...Freedom of movement across frontiers in either direction, and inside frontiers as well, was part of our heritage. Travel abroad, like travel within the country,...may be as close to the heart of the individual as the choice of what he eats, or wears, or reads. Freedom of movement is basic in our scheme of values”. - U.S. Supreme Court in Kent vs. Dulles.
My question is this: Have you actually been constrained from traveling in any way?
I live in a state with a "travel ban" in place, and I travel periodically to a neighboring state with even more severe restrictions right now. And never once have I been stopped -- or even seen a single person pulled over on the side of the road by the police for ANY reason in all my travels.
> 2,200,000>240,000>80,000>60,000>... <
Yep, you made a good point there. It is hard to have a great deal of trust in people who throw out wild numbers all over the place. Those folks begin to look like Chicken Littles.
It’s an excruciating balancing act. Restrict too little, and more people will die. Restrict too much, and personal freedoms and the economy will die.
It didn’t. Colorado is on lockdown or whatever they call it. Only supposed to leave the house for “essential” needs, like food an medicine. I still do all my usual outdoor activities, hiking, jogging, fishing and “taking a drive”. No one has given me a second look. In fact, I’ve only seen one cop driving in town in the last week or so.
I’ve decided they are toothless and I am ignoring them until they show me different.
Comparing the real risks of 12/7/1941 to the exaggerated and overreaching claims of today are a license to allow to snatch our freedoms for any and all imaginary risks and fears.
There is a reason for the 2nd amendment. It’s to take the country back once the Government has lost it’s mind and begins to serve itself. The latter part is very clearly happening for at least 2 if not 3 decades.
Armed revolt will occur shortly if this trajectory of economic decline and freedom grabbing continues.
At this point folks America is, OVER. We have established precedent that the bill of rights only counts when our elites approve it and when and for whatever reason they say you have no rights, then you have no rights.
I don't know how everyone else feels but I'm pretty sure what we are going through was never supposed to be allowed under the system of government established by our founders. When I say NEVER, I mean just that. There were but few exceptions written into our founding documents and nothing about this virus would ever qualify.
One thing has been clear to me since the very first "stay at home" order was pronounced and that is when this is over the American people across all of this great country must amend our Constitution in such a manner as to make any of these closures, lockdowns and power grabs expressly illegal under any circumstances. This must never be allowed to happen again no matter what the threat. Many many thousands of American soldiers have given their lives to guarantee our way of life and protect our liberties which we have completely surrendered in a matter of five weeks.
In my opinion job one is not to build medical equipment factories and antibiotics in the United States but rather to make sure our own Federal, State and Local governments are NEVER allowed to shut down America again. If we fail to do this no amount of domestic supply chain will ever protect us. Our liberty must be protected over all else.
Donald Trump, nor Congress have ordered anyone locked down under any pretenses.
I have argued this was false for forty years. In fact it's one of my pet peeves. There is simply no way our founders would have signed on to law that provides people must have a license to ride a horse. The automobile is our horse.
Driving is liberty and liberty is a right not a privilege.
Good! Stay safe.
No, so far I haven’t. Which brings an interesting point. Our governor might be aware of this fundamental right (she’s a lawyer after all), and declares house arrest for everyone, but is not actually enforcing, nor is her police, those parts of the order which contravene fundamental rights. Interesting. She might as well be expecting everyone to operate on the honor system, based on a strongly worded executive order, but knows that when challenged, it will fall apart.
And that is way the Federal government is recommending that we do this r that for prevention, but is not actually mandating that we do anything.
I am no fan of liberal governors, including the one in my own state. But I really don’t think that they are diabolically trying to steal my freedoms. I just don’t. Yes, they could be overreacting. And yes, their restrictions might be unnecessary.
But I don’t see this as a power grab. I see it more like incompetent governors trying to manage to a dangerous situation, as best they can.
I just thank goodness that Trump is president.
Exactly!
I understand your sentiments but reality simply did not support these restrictions. Second it's one thing for government to request people do things, it's an entirely different matter to order people to do things and to arrest them if they don't comply.
If we would have been seeing deaths on the level predicted by these "experts" I don't think any of the orders would have ever been needed. Americans nearly across the board will do the right thing when the situation warrants. The reality is clear that we are not getting the truth in any way shape or form. We were first told masks were ineffective, now were are being commanded to wear them. We were told millions would die and it's pretty clear that is not happening and it's also clear the numbers are being cooked by attributing deaths of other causes to the Covid virus.
Lastly, I would not oppose or even be very concerned with most of these government actions if just one word was changed. Change the word "order" to "request" and I'm ok with just about any of this and I think the response from the public would have been about the same compliance wise.
On the other hand, in Pennsylvania and possibly other states, "driving" has always been described by the state government as a privileged and not a right.
My buddies old man (in his 70s or so) has fished in Michigan his whole life. Heck he lives on the lake, fishing boat docked in his backyard. Him and his buddy fish everyday minus weekends cause of all the idiots they say.
Anyway yesterday they were stopped by DNR and they politely told them to get bent. I guess the DNR turned their boat around and went on their way.
Massive civil disobedience, you gotta love it when even the govt employees will not bend to unconstitutional rule.
...... as a “privilege” and not a right.
> The reality is clear that we are not getting the truth in any way shape or form. <
I 100% agree with that. Either we are being lied to, or those in power are talking before all the facts are in. I suspect it’s the latter.
> Change the word “order” to “request” ... <
There I must respectfully disagree. There is a county road right in front of my house. It is posted 35 mph. That is not a request. It is an order. And so it should be, for the safety of the general public.
Maybe that 35 mph is an overreaction. And maybe all these quarantine rules are an overreaction. But lives are at stake. So I’d error on the side of caution.
Mostly those going to church.
Good for the fishermen AND the DNR. I do not see how being on a lake, in a boat, passes on the stupid virus.
I also see no reason to shut down shooting ranges. Distancing could have been worked out.
Giving up liberty for security will always lead to losing liberty permanently. I hear so many quoting the Founders and taking them out of context to suit agenda but a true keystone of the American founding is liberty vs tyranny.
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