Discuss: What will be the effects of a long-term shutdowns and quarantines? How will liberalism use this crisis further its agenda? What about seeing deaths in perspective of other causes? And preparation for eternity?

The goal behind long-term shutdowns and quarantines is to preserve health and ultimately to save lives, but how extensive will the cost be to the economy? Will that effect itself cost lives, as well as foster permanent loss of personal freedom? Months from now how do you think all the actions o Covid-19 be judged?

What will or should we learn from this? How will this change society? Will this be an annual recourse to the next incarnation of a highly communicable infection?

Being part of crowded gatherings puts people involved in danger when a highly communicable disease is a proven threat, and while not disputing the need for temporary shutdowns of such and quarantines of the infected (provided they get fresh air and sun and nutrition - and restful sleep) if they are at the stage they can infect others, yet where is the rational discussion in terms of cost/benefits? To what degree might we say the US over or under reacted?

How can liberals use this crisis to attack Trump even more, and advocate for universal health care, and increased government control? How will this foster the latter?

How will liberals use the rationale behind shutdowns and quarantines to furthers its agenda such as under the premise of preventing Climate Change?

For perspective, consider that driving puts one in danger, with approx. 90 deaths a day. Driving is justified in the light of the ratio of vehicles to fatalities and the benefits provided by it, esp. the economy.

But liberals will exclaim how much the reduction in driving and activity has reduced carbon emissions, and argue that as with Covid-19, great restrictions are necessary to combat the dire threat of Climate Change.

However, the ratio of deaths by Covid-19 in the US is also very small (so far): 69 as of 8AM, Mon, 03/16/20. out a pop. of 333 million, and almost all these deaths are among the elderly, while the long term shutdown of business and activities will likely have profound negative long-term effects on the economy and society.

Dare I ask if shutting down all schools is necessary? Restricting any outside gatherings of over 50 people? What if this continues for months? Do we need to treat this as the Spanish flu? Should the extra-long 2017-2018 flu season - in which up to 169 Americans died per day in one 4-week period, and about 80,000 total and sickened the young as well - seen something like the reaction to Convid-19?

Would it help to see other deaths in perspective? About 7,196 Americans die every day in the US from a wide range of causes, both natural and unnatural. (https://www.weisspaarz.com/leading-causes-death-by-state/)

Number of deaths in the United States for just today so far: 3,212 as of 10:20:53 AM Mon, 03/16/20 (https://www.indexmundi.com/clocks/indicator/deaths/united-states)

More than 2600 Americans die every day of cardiovascular disease. ("Hidden," Jones & Bartlett Publishers)

Doctors blamed heart disease for 647,457 deaths in 2017 — more than four times the number of deaths caused by the next most common cause, chronic lower respiratory diseases. (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/60/)

274 people die every day from blood clots, according to the National Blood Clot Alliance. (https://health.usnews.com/conditions/articles/what-are-the-warning-signs-of-a-blood-clot)

In 2017, 83,564 people died from complications related to diabetes. (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/55/) It is frequently stated in scientific and lay literature that obesity causes about 300 000 deaths per year in the United States...it may difficult to develop accurate and precise estimates. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1448478/) Obese people account for 37 percent of the United States’ population, but obesity-related diseases and health problems account for 61 percent of healthcare costs in the United States every year (“The Economics of Overweight and Obesity,” 2007).

500 people with diabetes die prematurely every week. (https://www.diabetes.org.uk/about_us/news/premature-deaths-diabetes) Diabetes can cause heart disease, kidney failure, and blindness, and costs the US health care system and employers $237 billion every year. (https://www.cdc.gov/chronicdisease/about/costs/index.htm)

Over 80,000 Americans Died of Flu in 2018... 90 percent of those deaths were in people over age 65 (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/01/health/flu-deaths-vaccine.html) A four-week stretch saw the flu kill older Americans at a rate of 169 people a day, or seven people per hour. (https://www.aarp.org/health/conditions-treatments/info-2018/older-flu-deaths-rising.html)

CDC estimates that influenza has resulted in between 9 million – 45 million illnesses, between 140,000 – 810,000 hospitalizations and between 12,000 – 61,000 deaths annually since 2010. (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html)

Accidental poisoning accounted for 64,795 deaths in 2017. (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/54/)

In 2017, 6,118 people died from inflammation of the colon and small intestine caused by infection with the Clostridium difficile, or C. diff, bacteria, which is often resistant to antibiotics. (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/47)

1,500 die every day from cancer ... Cancer remains the second-leading cause of death in the U.S., behind heart disease. (https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/report-1500-die-every-day-from-cancer/),

91 people on average die every day from opioid overdoses (https://247wallst.com/special-report/2017/08/21/how-drug-overdose-is-a-leading-cause-of-death-among-young-people/2/)

Breast cancer claimed 42,510 lives in 2017. (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/49/)

About 90 people die each day in the US from crashes (https://www.cdc.gov/vitalsigns/motor-vehicle-safety/index.html) According to CDC statistics, there were 40,231 deaths caused by motor vehicle accidents in 2017. (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/47/)

(Doctors blamed sepsis in the blood — also known as septicemia — for 40,922 deaths in 2017. (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/48/)

HIV was listed as the cause of death for 5,698 Americans in 2017 (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/14/)

Doctors blamed Parkinson's disease for 31,963 deaths in 2017. (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/43/)

Doctors blamed alcohol-related liver diseases for 22,246 deaths in 2017. (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/38/)

According to CDC statistics, 23,854 people died of suicide by gunshot in 2017. (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/40/)

Each day, ten Americans die from asthma, and in 2017, 3,564 people died from it. (https://www.aafa.org/asthma-facts/)

“What is now being done in Washington is completely out of proportion to the risks and actually insane unless there is another motivation. That motivation is to cause panic to destroy the economy to influence the next election.”

It doesn’t have to be one or the other, it can be (and is) all of the above. We’re in the fog of war at the moment, muddling along in panic without thinking with some people trying to do the right thing others taking advantage of the situation.

The fog will start clearing as time goes on. In a few weeks we’ll have better visibility.

2. Isolation and containment to a small restricted population until it is eradicated in that population. This is what’s being tried now, but it’s going to be tough to do it this way.

Though that could leave more people vulnerable in the long term than acquired immunity via a larger community being infected and recovering, though the mortality rate is what makes #1 and #2 more preferable.

“Italy holds the Largest Chinese Diaspora Community in the EU Today” That’s a ridiculous red herring. The US and especially Canada have a far greater Chinese immigrant population than Italy, both in absolute terms and per capita.

I actually had researched this in response to a statement and thus i stated, "Actually research shows Chinese only make up about 0.28% of Italy, and non-Chinese Asian make up 0.83%

However, the "Is It Related" conjecture was based on an premise that the outbreak occurred where high concentrations of Chinese are, stating that "The coronavirus was detected near Padua back on February 21. Around 50,000 Chinese are employed in Prato alone, Italy’s textile capital near Florence. Is It Related."

But that postulated correlation does lack substance.

But other factors are,

One factor affecting the country's death rate may be the age of its population — Italy has the oldest population in Europe, with about 23% of residents 65 or older, according to The New York Times. The median age in the country is 47.3, compared with 38.3 in the United States, the Times reported. Many of Italy's deaths have been among people in their 80s, and 90s, a population known to be more susceptible to severe complications from COVID-19, according to The Local....

Often, as testing expands within a community, more mild cases are found, which lowers the overall death rate, Gordon said. This was the case in South Korea, which conducted more than 140,000 tests and found a fatality rate of 0.6%, according to Business Insider. - https://www.livescience.com/why-italy-coronavirus-deaths-so-high.html

My best friend is a Battalian Chief on the department that I used to work for and a member of FEMA who frequently gets sent all over the country. They made everyone in my former department read up on all sorts of the most current info on the Coronavirus. Everyone with a sniffle in this area now believes that they have the dreaded virus. This has increased the call volume tremendously.

Despite the lock down in this area, there has been no detectable increase in people dying from pneumonia outside of the Kirkland area.

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