Posted on 08/19/2019 5:20:04 PM PDT by DUMBGRUNT
Oil fields, even abandoned oil fields, still contain significant amounts of oil. The researchers have found that injecting oxygen into the fields raises the temperature and liberates H2, which can them be separated from other gases via specialist filters. Hydrogen is not pre-existing in the reservoirs, but pumping oxygen means that the reaction to form hydrogen can take place.
"This technique can draw up huge quantities of hydrogen while leaving the carbon in the ground. When working at production level, we anticipate we will be able to use the existing infrastructure and distribution chains to produce H2 for between 10 and 50 cents per kilo. This means it potentially costs a fraction of gasoline for equivalent output". This compares with current H2 production costs of around $2/kilo. Around 5% of the H2 produced then powers the oxygen production plant, so the system more than pays for itself.
(Excerpt) Read more at phys.org ...
Unlimited energy could be found coming out of unicorn butts and the left would still never be happy. The left is not about solving problems. Problems and crisis is what fuels them.
Ahhhh, bull spittle.
Tell me the gross cost of compressing O2, injecting and recovering H2, then compute the BTU exchange and I bet it is in the negative- what else can they foist on us? Pump, frac, drill etc, get the hydro carbons out of the ground, then refine it, then burn it to produce H2O, to cool the “warming globe” of course.....
in order to avoid long-term embrittlement and possibilities of leakage...
A while back there was a discussion of hydrogen embrittlement.
A Freeper had worked around it and for prevention.
Not that new?
Yes, the line size would be larger.
“Gaseous hydrogen can be transported through pipelines much the way natural gas is today. Approximately 1,600 miles of hydrogen pipelines are currently operating in the United States. Owned by merchant hydrogen producers, these pipelines are located where large hydrogen users, such as petroleum refineries and chemical plants, are concentrated such as the Gulf Coast region”
https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/hydrogen-pipelines
Your note is not surprising, and I was considering whether or not the kind of H2 production discussed in the report might be cost efficient as another fuel source at electric power plants. That would surely minimize the size, variety and complexity of the distribution issues, if retail use (vehicle fuel station) was not part of the mix.
We can bolt some nitrogen onto the hydrogen and make it ammonia, which can be stored or burned in natural gas plants.
They hydrogen is not free hydrogen but is tied up as hydrocarbons in the residual oil in these “played out” oilfields.
Until the author of this article will explain the chemical reactions in detail and the cost of separation of the newly formed CO2 from the hydrogen that has been mythical released my apologies to those that read this, THIS is BULL SHIT.
I would most graciously be proven wrong as free hydrogen is good.
PS
CO2 is plant food. Why in the hell do you think we pump it into green houses. Actually we normally just burn hydrocarbons in the green house and thus have water vapor and CO2.
The other problem with hydrogen is embrittlement of metals. At high pressures, the hydrogen will work its way through the metal matrix, changing from diatomic hydrogen molecules to monatomic hydrogen. The individual hydrogen atoms are small enough to migrate through the metal crystal matrix, so it will leak through solid metal. While the hydrogen atoms are in the metal matrix it also makes the alloy more brittle. Not good. The only metal that the hydrogen can not migrate through that I know of is gold, since the gold atoms are packed more closely together.
In fact some refinery instrumentation that I use have gold plated pressure sensing diaphragms, and are used where the hydrogen partial pressure is greater than 100 psia. On the other side of the diaphragm (typically 316 stainless steel) is a silicone oil fill fluid, which transmits the force to the actual pressure sensor. Without the gold plating, the hydrogen will migrate through the stainless steel diaphragm and form gas bubbles in the silicone oil fill fluid. This would be a source of error for the instrument.
sigh. MASSIVE energy costs to produce that injection oxygen ...
I did my undergraduate and graduate theses on hydrogen
I realize in the late 90s that it was just going to be government work and so I got into the solar industry
Im still a giant fan of hydrogen and hydrogen - fuel cell cars are now coming out but I dont really care about cars
The entire planet actually can run on photovoltaics and water
There is no denying this fact
What is the only fuel with enough energy density to get a rocket into space? Hydrogen liquid hydrogen
So they want to pump oxygen which people and animals need into the ground in order to avoid creating Carbon Dioxide which plants need?
Why does that sound stupid to me?
The question is whats left AFTER you extract the hydrogen ???
Toxic waste
Also how much energy (and other resources) is used in this production process ??
“I agree with the other guy, storage of Hydrogen is challenging, but we were able to store Helium underground, which is probably just as hard to contain.”
There was/is so little helium around (byproduct of nuclear isotope decay in the earths crust like Uranium) that the Germans had to use hydrogen in all their zeppelins and the US airships had to have ways to SAVE helium when the gas cells over-inflated instead of venting it.
SO that isn’t a good example.
The quantities of hydrogen to use it as talked about - as a power source like this, would be 8 magnitudes larger (million/billions of tons).
They already have ideas about pumping CO2 from fossil fuel power plants back into underground wells like old oil wells, but costs alot of extra overhead and may have significant limits on capacities
Portable liquid hydrogen is cryogenic, pressurized hydrogen requires dangerous/heavy pressure containment or a too-large volume
Use AT a big REMOTE power plant operation even has the problem of long distance electric transmission having losses upto 90% over thousands of miles
-
the “leave the carbon behind” also sounds like they will potentially have megatons of black toxic (impurity filled) sludge to dispose of for a system like this in the scale it would have
Missing word?
Don't be ridiculous.
We know how to do all of these things. No new technology needs to be developed to accomplish them. I get TIRED of the knee-jerk and brainless hydrogen-bashing here on FR.
Hydrogen is already handled on a mega-ton industrial scale in our society. We know in detail how to handle it. The problem is producing it economically. If this process does that, then we are good.
Went away as soon as they stopped the SST in fact.
What is the only fuel with enough energy density to get a rocket into space? Hydrogen liquid hydrogen
Fun stuff
Thanks!
Looking around I found this ...
When we buy a car, one of the first performance parameters we ask is, how much will it run on a litre of fuel. Even for rockets, there exists a such a parameter called Specific Impulse. This is a sort of mileage for a rocket. It gives us the idea of how much the rocket will accelerate or get pushed for a given kg or pound of fuel. Hydrogen has the highest specific impulse, i.e., it provides the highest push per unit of mass compared to any other chemical rocket.
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-liquid-hydrogen-used-as-fuel-for-rockets
Why does that sound stupid to me?
In logic, reductio ad absurdum (Latin for “reduction to absurdity”)is a form of argument that attempts either to disprove a statement by showing it inevitably leads to a ridiculous, absurd, or impractical conclusion, or to prove one by showing that if it were not true, the result would be absurd or impossible
The Earth cannot be flat; otherwise, we would find people falling off the edge.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum
That said, there is plenty of oxygen to go around.
“Nearly half of all the atoms in the earth are oxygen atoms. Oxygen also makes up about one-fifth of the Earth’s atmosphere.”
They will surely bitch about water vapor being worse than CO2 once hydrogen vehicles are implemented. Then, of course, there is the Hindenburg.
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