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Russian spy Newsweek warns about was working with the Dems to help Hillary and hurt Trump!
Various sources (links provided) | articles compiled on May 25, 2019

Posted on 05/25/2019 8:39:33 AM PDT by ETL

Note that this first article below from the left-wing, cover the Dems' butts, snooze magazine, Newsweek, was meant to "dirty" Trump.

Meanwhile, this Russian spy guy for KGB/FSB Putin that they are scaring the public about was, it appears, working with them, The Democrats! to HURT Trump and HELP Hillary win the election! Lol!

From Newsweek, Feb 12, 2019...

Vladimir Putin’s Adviser [Vladislav Surkov] Tells Americans: ‘Russia Interferes in Your Brains, We Change Your Conscience’

Cristina Maza (Newsweek)
Feb 12, 2019

Americans who worry about Russia election interference should stop focusing on such trivialities and instead realize that the idea that they have a choice over how they are governed is a mere illusion, Vladislav Surkov, an adviser to Russian President Vladimir Putin, wrote in an op-ed published this week.

“The illusion of choice is the most important illusion, the main trick of Western democracy especially….

The rejection of this illusion in favor of the reality that everything is predestined will allow society to reflect first on our vision of democratic development,” Surkov wrote.

“Foreign politicians talk about Russia’s interference in elections and referendums around the world.

In fact, the matter is even more serious: Russia interferes in your brains, we change your conscience, and there is nothing you can do about it.”

Election interference is not the main thing Americans should be worried about, said an adviser to the Russian president.

In his op-ed for the Russian publication Nezavisimaya Gazeta, or “Independent Newspaper,” Surkov also laid out Putin’s vision of returning Russia to its rightful role as a global superpower and exporting “Putinism” as an ideology to be adopted around the world.

“After having fallen from the USSR to the Russian Federation, Russia stopped collapsing and began to recover and return to its natural and only possible state as a large nation that is on the rise,” he wrote.

“The great role assigned to our country in the history of the world does not allow us to leave the stage or keep silent among the crowd….

It does not promise peace….

Putin’s great political machine is only gaining momentum and gearing up for a long, difficult, and interesting job,” Surkov continued.

He then went on to describe Putin as the founder of modern Russia, similar to the Turkish leader Mustafa Kemal Ataturk or France’s Charles de Gaulle.

“Putinism is the ideology of the future,” he wrote.

“The political system created in Russia is suitable not only for the future of local areas, it clearly has significant export potential.” ...”

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-president-vladimir-putin-election-americans-1327793

_________________________________________________

Now check out this below from conservative (patriot) commentator Dan Bongino, May 17, 2019...

"Thanks to recently released notes from an interview the State Department’s Kathleen Kavalec had with dossier author Christopher Steele, a possible bombshell connection between Halper and the dossier has been uncovered.

As discussed earlier in the week on the podcast, those notes also demonstrate Steele failing to keep his story straight between the State Department and FBI, proving how unreliable he is.

In Kavalec’s handwritten notes from their interview she makes note of two of Steele’s dossier sources; “Trubnikov” and “Surkov.”

Surkov is Vladislav Surkov, an aide of Vladimir Putin who is on the U.S.’s list of sanctioned individuals, and Trubnikov is Vyacheslav Trubnikov, who is currently the First Deputy of Foreign Minister of Russia and formally served as the Director of Foreign Intelligence Service.

Interestingly, Trubnikov is an associate of Halper. ..."

https://bongino.com/new-document-exposes-two-russian-dossier-sources/

_____________________________________________________________

“Foreign politicians talk about Russia’s interference in elections and referendums around the world. In fact, the matter is even more serious: Russia interferes in your brains, we change your conscience, and there is nothing you can do about it.”

--Vladislav Surkov, aide to Vladimir Putin


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: obamagate; spygate; steeledossier; surkov; vladislavsurkov
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Vladislav Yuryevich Surkov

Image result for Vladislav Yuryevich Surkov

Vladislav Yuryevich Surkov (born 21 September 1964)[1] is a Russian businessman and politician of Chechen descent.[2]

He was First Deputy Chief of the Russian Presidential Administration from 1999 to 2011, during which time he was widely seen as the main ideologist of the Kremlin who proposed and implemented the concept of sovereign democracy in Russia.

From December 2011 until May 2013 Surkov served as the Russian Federation’s Deputy Prime Minister.[3][4]

After his resignation, Surkov returned to the Presidential Executive Office and became a personal adviser of Vladimir Putin on relationships with Abkhazia, South Ossetia and Ukraine.[5]

Surkov is perceived by many to be a key figure with much power and influence in the administration of Vladimir Putin.[6][7][8]

According to The Moscow Times, this perception is not dependent on the official title Surkov might hold at any one time in the Putin government.[9]

BBC documentary filmmaker Adam Curtis credits Surkov’s blend of theater and politics with keeping Putin, and Putin’s chosen successors, in power since 2000.[10]

Journalists in Russia and abroad have speculated that Surkov writes under the pseudonym Nathan Dubovitsky, although the Kremlin denies it.[11][12][13][14]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladislav_Surkov

1 posted on 05/25/2019 8:39:33 AM PDT by ETL
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Steele Identified Russian Dossier Sources, Notes Reveal

The Daily Caller | US
Chuck Ross | Investigative Reporter
May 16, 2019


2 posted on 05/25/2019 8:39:49 AM PDT by ETL (REAL Russia collusion! New Updates on Dem-Russia collusion via Ukraine ! Click ETL)
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AG Bill Barr: 'I'm Concerned' the Steele Dossier Was Part of Russia's Disinformation Campaign

PJMedia.com ^ | May 1, 2019 | Tyler O'Neil

On Wednesday, [May 1, 2019] Attorney General William Barr testified that he is “concerned” about the Trump-Russia dossier compiled by former British spy Christopher Steele and paid for by the Democratic National Committee and the Hillary Clinton campaign.

Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) asked Barr whether or not the Department of Justice (DOJ) could confirm that the Steele dossier was not part of the disinformation campaign Russia used to interfere in the 2016 presidential election.

“How do we know that the Steele dossier is not itself evidence of the Russian disinformation campaign, knowing what we know now that basically the allegations made therein were second-hand, hearsay, or unverified,” Cornyn stated, referring to key claims in the dossier that the report from Special Counsel Robert Mueller disproved, such as the claim that Trump lawyer Michael Cohen traveled to Prague.

“Can you state with confidence that the Steele dossier was not part of the Russian disinformation campaign?” Cornyn asked.

“No, I can’t state that with confidence and that is one of the areas that I’m reviewing,” Barr replied. “I’m concerned about it and I don’t think it’s entirely speculative.”

If Russia had a hand in the Steele dossier, that would imply that Hillary Clinton’s campaign and the DNC either worked with Russians or were duped by the Russians in their disinformation campaigns.

It would mean that the real “collusion” with Russia may have been on the Clinton side, rather than the Trump side.

(Excerpt) Read more at pjmedia.com ...

__________________________________________________________________________

July 2017...

[Dossier] Democrats intentionally used disinformation from Russia to attack Trump, campaign aides

By Rowan Scarborough
The Washington Times
July 11, 2017

While the mainstream news media hunts for evidence of Trump-Russia collusion, the public record shows that Democrats have willfully used Moscow disinformation to influence the presidential election against Donald Trump and attack his administration.

The disinformation came in the form of a Russian-fed dossier written by former British intelligence agent Christopher Steele. It contains a series of unverified criminal charges against Mr. Trump’s campaign aides, such as coordinating Moscow’s hacking of Democratic Party computers.

Some Democrats have widely circulated the discredited information.

Mr. Steele was paid by the Democrat-funded opposition research firm Fusion GPS with money from a Hillary Clinton backer.

Fusion GPS distributed the dossier among Democrats and journalists. The information fell into the hands of the FBI, which used it in part to investigate Mr. Trump’s campaign aides.

Mr. Steele makes clear that his unproven charges came almost exclusively from sources linked to the Kremlin and Russian President Vladimir Putin. He identified his sources as “a senior Russian Foreign Ministry figure,” a former “top level Russian intelligence officer active inside the Kremlin,” a “senior Kremlin official” and a “senior Russian government official.”

The same Democrats who have condemned Russia’s election interference via plying fake news and hacking email servers have quoted freely from the Steele anti-Trump memos derived from creatures of the Kremlin.

In other words, there is public evidence of significant, indirect collusion between Democrats and Russian disinformation...”

Continued at source...

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jul/11/democrats-spread-false-russian-information-on-trum/

Or,

https://web.archive.org/web/20170902055857/http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jul/11/democrats-spread-false-russian-information-on-trum/

3 posted on 05/25/2019 8:40:40 AM PDT by ETL (REAL Russia collusion! New Updates on Dem-Russia collusion via Ukraine ! Click ETL)
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To: All
And on the Russia-Dem collusion, via Ukraine front...

Giuliani: "The fact is, this was a massive collusion between the Democratic National Committee, officials of the Obama administration, (Hillary) Clinton people, and the Ukrainian officials, corrupt officials — who, by the way, were pro-Russian corrupt officials"

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

4 posted on 05/25/2019 8:41:53 AM PDT by ETL (REAL Russia collusion! New Updates on Dem-Russia collusion via Ukraine ! Click ETL)
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To: ETL

It’s almost like other countries bribed the Clintons.


5 posted on 05/25/2019 8:50:49 AM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: blueunicorn6
It’s almost like other countries bribed the Clintons.

Like with Bill Clinton's ChinaGate, this was about more than just money.

6 posted on 05/25/2019 8:52:15 AM PDT by ETL (REAL Russia collusion! New Updates on Dem-Russia collusion via Ukraine ! Click ETL)
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To: ETL

Trump won because his rival was so much worse fir the country. A saint he ain’t; unless you compare him with Clinton and Obama.


7 posted on 05/25/2019 8:54:47 AM PDT by KDF48 (Redeemed by Christ.)
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To: blueunicorn6

If Putin could have influenced the election, he would have favored HELLary.

She is a self-avowed communist who had taken more than $500 MILLION in bribes just on Uranium-1 alone.

Putin could control HELLary just as he controlled hussein44.


8 posted on 05/25/2019 8:55:03 AM PDT by newfreep ("INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - DAVID HOROWITZ)
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To: All
Obviously related...


CIA Director under President Obama, John Brennan

John Brennan Voted Communist in 1976, Then Entered CIA in 1980

Eric Zuesse
March 31, 2018

Barack Obama’s CIA chief, John Brennan, told the Annual Legislative Conference of the Congressional Black Caucus, on 15 September 2016, in Washington DC, that when he had applied in 1980 to join the CIA, he admitted to them that in the 1976 Presidential election, when Jimmy Carter was running against Gerald Ford, Brennan had voted instead for the candidate of the U.S. Communist Party, Gus Hall, and that he was then greatly relieved to find that this information didn’t cause rejection of his CIA-application.

This had happened 11 years before the 1991 end of the Cold War...”

https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2018/03/31/john-brennan-voted-communist-in-1976-then-entered-cia-in-1980/

___________________________________________________________________________

"During the Cold War the CPUSA [Communist Party, USA] had a parallel underground structure, and a small number of people spied for Moscow.

Until the 1980s the party was receiving substantial amounts of Soviet funding, says Klehr, money that the FBI knew about and tracked."

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26126325

9 posted on 05/25/2019 8:57:23 AM PDT by ETL (REAL Russia collusion! New Updates on Dem-Russia collusion via Ukraine ! Click ETL)
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To: newfreep

AMEN!! PLUS the Russians have EVERYTHING on her....she is easily manipulated by the Russians!


10 posted on 05/25/2019 9:21:35 AM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion....... The HUMAN Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: ETL

And COMEY was/is ALSO a Communist....in his own words also!


11 posted on 05/25/2019 9:22:38 AM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion....... The HUMAN Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: newfreep
If Putin could have influenced the election, he would have favored HELLary.

That SHOULD BE a no-brainer by now, at least for everyone here. The resident FR pro-Russia Putinias mistakenly believed that Trump would be soft on Putin. Would be interesting to know what they REALLY think about what's going on now. How TRump-Pence have done a 180 in our dealing with expansionist Russia.

Image result for trump

Donald Trump: 'Putin has eaten Obama's lunch, therefore our lunch, for a long period of time'

Mar 13, 2014
Eun Kyung Kim: TODAY SHOW (NBC)

Donald Trump slammed President Obama Thursday on TODAY for failing to take a stronger line against President Vladimir Putin in dealing with Ukraine, saying he feared Obama would now make up for lost time with imprudent moves to "show his manhood."

The real estate mogul and reality-TV star, who has criticized Putin for sending military troops into Crimea, said Obama must now take fierce steps to prevent the situation from escalating further.

"We should definitely do sanctions and we have to show some strengths. I mean, Putin has eaten Obama's lunch, therefore our lunch, for a long period of time," Trump said. ..."

http://www.today.com/news/donald-trump-putin-has-eaten-obamas-lunch-ukraine-2D79372098
_______________________________________________

Here’s the interview w/ Matt Lauer on YouTube...

Donald Trump (2014): ‘Vladimir Putin Has Eaten Obama’s Lunch’:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzURUENf1ns
_______________________________________________

Vice President Pence on Russia:

(from the VP debate on Oct 5, 2016)

“What we’re dealing with is the — you know, there’s an old proverb that says the Russian bear never dies, it just hibernates.

And the truth of the matter is, the weak and feckless foreign policy of Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama has awakened an aggression in Russia that first appeared a few years ago with their move in Georgia, now their move into Crimea, now their move into the wider Middle East.

____________________________________________________________________________________________

JULY 2017...

Trump, in Warsaw Speech, Criticizes Russia’s ‘Destabilizing’ Role in Ukraine, Syria

The president also reaffirmed his commitment to NATO’s mutual-defense pact

Jul 6, 2017

President Trump called Russia a “destabilizing” influence in Europe and the Middle East, and urged it to “join the community of responsible nations,” in his strongest remarks yet against the regime of Vladimir Putin, whom he is scheduled to meet Friday in Hamburg for the first time.

His remarks in Warsaw’s Krasinski Square, which marks the 1944 Warsaw uprising against the Nazis, came after the U.S. agreed to sell Patriot missiles to Poland. The president also used the opportunity to reiterate the NATO commitment to mutual defense, a declaration he did not make during the NATO summit in May, prompting consternation among U.S. allies wary of Russia’s ambitions.

“To those who would criticize our tough stance, I would point out that the United States has demonstrated—not merely with its words but with its actions—that we stand firmly behind Article 5, the mutual-defense commitment,” Trump said Thursday. “Words are easy, but actions are what matters. And for its own protection, Europe, and you know this, everybody knows this, everybody has to know this, Europe must do more.”

Trump has repeatedly said NATO members must spend more on defense—a position in line with past U.S. administrations. But he has been criticized because he appeared to suggest U.S. commitment to mutual defense was predicated on its allies’ defense spending. ...”

https://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2017/07/trump-russia/532761/

_______________________________________________________________________________

Feb 9, 2017:

Exclusive: In call with Putin, Trump denounced Obama-era nuclear arms treaty [New Start Treaty] - sources

By Jonathan Landay and David Rohde

February 9, 2017

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - In his first call as president with Russian leader Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump denounced a treaty that caps U.S. and Russian deployment of nuclear warheads as a bad deal for the United States, according to two U.S. officials and one former U.S. official with knowledge of the call.

When Putin raised the possibility of extending the 2010 treaty, known as New START, Trump paused to ask his aides in an aside what the treaty was, these sources said.

Trump then told Putin the treaty was one of several bad deals negotiated by the Obama administration, saying that New START favored Russia. ...”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-call-putin-trump-denounced-obama-era-nuclear-171036908.html?ref=gs

or,

https://web.archive.org/web/20170209182918/https://www.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-call-putin-trump-denounced-obama-era-nuclear-171036908.html?ref=gs

____________________________________________________________________________________________

Trump says NATO is obsolete but still ‘very important to me’

January 16, 2017

LONDON (Reuters) - U.S. President-elect Donald Trump said NATO was obsolete because it had not defended against terror attacks, but that the military alliance was still very important to him, The Times of London reported.

“I took such heat, when I said NATO was obsolete,” Trump told the newspaper in an interview. “It’s obsolete because it wasn’t taking care of terror. I took a lot of heat for two days. And then they started saying Trump is right.”

Trump added that many NATO members were not paying their fair share for U.S. protection.

“A lot of these countries aren’t paying what they’re supposed to be paying, which I think is very unfair to the United States,” Trump said. “With that being said, NATO is very important to me. There’s five countries that are paying what they’re supposed to. Five. It’s not much.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-nato-obsolete-still-very-important-004548554—finance.html?ref=gs

____________________________________________________________________________________________

NATO head: Trump's tough talk has added $100B to alliance, helped deter Russia

FoxNews.com ^ | Jan 27, 2019 | Gregg Re | Fox News

"President Trump has been very clear," Stoltenberg told fill-in host John Roberts.

"He is committed to NATO. He stated that clearly just a few days ago and also at the NATO summit in July.

But at the same time, he has clearly stated that NATO allies need to invest more. And therefore at the summit in July last year, we agreed to do more to step up -- and now we see the results."

In all, Stolenberg continued, "by the end of next year, NATO allies will add hundred – 100 billion extra US dollars toward defense. So we see some real money and some real results. And we see that the clear message from President Donald Trump is having an impact."

In July 2018, NATO leaders pledged their “unwavering commitment” to boost defense spending, following stern words from the president. The U.S. and European allies signed a declaration stating they were “committed to improving the balance of sharing the costs and responsibilities of alliance membership.”

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...

____________________________________________________________________________________________

March, 2019

Pentagon Eyes Windfall as Trump Seeks $750 Billion Defense Budget

The White House’s annual budget request would give the Defense Department even more than it hoped for

The Pentagon is getting everything it asked for in the White House’s annual budget request—and then some.

U.S. President Donald Trump will submit a budget to Congress on Monday that includes a sizable $750 billion for fiscal year 2020 for national defense spending, of which $718 billion will go to the Pentagon, a U.S. defense official confirmed to Foreign Policy.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/03/10/pentagon-eyes-windfall-as-trump-seeks-750-billion-defense-budget-military/

____________________________________________________________________________________________

“As president, my first duty is the defense of our country. I will accept nothing less for our nation than the most effective, cutting-edge missile defense systems.”

-- President Donald J. Trump
12 posted on 05/25/2019 9:23:13 AM PDT by ETL (REAL Russia collusion! New Updates on Dem-Russia collusion via Ukraine ! Click ETL)
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To: newfreep
Meanwhile, on the other hand...

Campaign trail, February 2008...

Obama Pledges Cuts in Missile Defense, Space, and Nuclear Weapons Programs

Image result for Obama-Caucus4Priorities youtube

February 29, 2008 :: News
MissileThreat.com

A video has surfaced of Presidential candidate Senator Barack Obama talking on his plans for strategic issues such as nuclear weapons and missile defense.

The full text from the video, as released, reads as follows:

Thanks so much for the Caucus4Priorities, for the great work you've been doing. As president, I will end misguided defense policies and stand with Caucus4Priorities in fighting special interests in Washington.

First, I'll stop spending $9 billion a month in Iraq. I'm the only major candidate who opposed this war from the beginning. And as president I will end it.[not win it -etl]

Second, I will cut tens of billions of dollars in wasteful spending.

I will cut investments in unproven missile defense systems.

I will not weaponize space.

I will slow our development of future combat systems.

And I will institute an independent "Defense Priorities Board" to ensure that the Quadrennial Defense Review is not used to justify unnecessary spending.

Third, I will set a goal of a world without nuclear weapons. To seek that goal, I will not develop new nuclear weapons; I will seek a global ban on the production of fissile material; and I will negotiate with Russia to take our ICBMs off hair-trigger alert [they are NOT on "hair-trigger alert" now -etl], and to achieve deep cuts in our nuclear arsenals.

You know where I stand. I've fought for open, ethical and accountable government my entire public life. I don't switch positions or make promises that can't be kept. I don't posture on defense policy and I don't take money from federal lobbyists for powerful defense contractors. As president, my sole priority for defense spending will be protecting the American people. Thanks so much.

Article: Obama Pledges Cuts in Missile Defense, Space, and Nuclear Weapons Programs:
https://web.archive.org/web/20100526142854/http://missilethreat.com/archives/id.7086/detail.asp

"MissileThreat.com is a project of The Claremont Institute devoted to understanding and promoting the requirements for the strategic defense of the United States."

________________________________________________________________________________

"I will not weaponize space"

"I will cut investments in unproven missile defense systems"
_____________________________________________________________________________________


13 posted on 05/25/2019 9:24:14 AM PDT by ETL (REAL Russia collusion! New Updates on Dem-Russia collusion via Ukraine ! Click ETL)
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To: ETL

Bookmark


14 posted on 05/25/2019 9:28:50 AM PDT by SE Mom (Screaming Eagle mom)
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To: ETL

Yes, while Putin made a small degree of meddling in the social media sphere, often in ways negative to Billary, Inc., his primary manipulation was his disinformation campaign against Trump that was sold, processed, handled and largely accepted by the U.S. DOJ/FBI, and Obama. Yes, in terms of meddling Putin’s main thrust is disruption, not specific candidate favorable or unfavorable.


15 posted on 05/25/2019 9:47:05 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: Wuli
Putin’s main thrust is disruption, not specific candidate favorable or unfavorable.

Nothing could be further from the truth. There were and are many obvious reasons for Putin to have wanted Hillary/Obama/Biden over a strong on defense Trump/Pence. Obama/Hillary appeased them at every turn. From nukes and missile defense to Uranium One and the Iran deal. This as they practically dismantled our own defenses. Can't believe people here still don't get it.

16 posted on 05/25/2019 10:36:28 AM PDT by ETL (REAL Russia collusion! New Updates on Dem-Russia collusion via Ukraine ! Click ETL)
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To: ETL

You can project all you want. I am less interested in past history than the election history, of what exactly Putin did, in the social media sphere (anti Hillary trolls), and in the intelligence sphere (fed anti Trump disinformation to Steele and others). He “played” and attempted to play both sides in different ways that were open to him.

He is doing the same thing - disruption - in many of this other moves. It is less his favor with this or that interest, as it is his attempt to disrupt the interests and relationships of others; then seeking some how to exploit that disruption for his interest.


17 posted on 05/25/2019 11:15:57 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: KDF48

A saint he ain’t; unless you compare him with Clinton and Obama.
_________________

Actually, he seems pretty benign. Doesn’t drink or do drugs. Has been audited for decades and not charged with anything major. Has been subjected to extreme vetting, tempted with setups, lied about in attempts to turn innocent situations into compromising ones, been physically threatened and object of attempted assassination, had his family threatened and subject to attempted intimidation and NOTHING HAS BEEN FOUND. AT ALL. ON ANY OF THEM. And he never quit or relented from the commission of his duties.

Works for free. Has lost money and had the brand he created from nothing into an icon tarnished, lost capital and income and still allowed the entire coup attempt to play out according to the law written by his enemies.

He has displayed the patience of Job.

So, he owned casinos, is said to love sports betting, has the vocabulary of a street urchin, likes beautiful women and has probably had a lot of sex outside of marriage. In today’s world, he’s cleaner than most Boy Scout leaders, if not an actual saint.

I’m not Catholic and know little of saints, but I seem to recall that they were often ordinarily flawed humans with exceptional faith and forbearance in the face of extreme physical and mental sanctions.

In my opinion, Donald J. Trump qualifies.


18 posted on 05/25/2019 11:19:42 AM PDT by reformedliberal
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To: reformedliberal

God already chose the ‘saints’... (Ephesians 1:4) Look at Saul/Paul.. also note the ‘majority of humanity’ has never ever been on the side of ‘right’... Since the beginning.


19 posted on 05/25/2019 11:25:42 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: ETL

Well, Russia does not look to be a super power in the near future. They are losing population and their economy is in the tank.


20 posted on 05/25/2019 1:29:23 PM PDT by rcofdayton
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