Posted on 05/18/2019 4:22:23 PM PDT by NRx
The German invasion of Western Europe has been going for over a week now, and the Neutral and Allied countries are in disarray. The Netherlands, despite putting up fierce resistance on some occasions, faces overwhelming powers while Belgium, France and the British feel the pressure from an organised and armoured assault from the Ardennes. And still, the German tanks, soldiers and aircraft are not all the Allies have to fear, as many of their losses are caused by their own command.
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There was no way the German navy could mobilize or support a reverse Operation Overlord. It took the better part of two years for the allies to marshal the men and equipment for the crossing. The allies didn’t have much opposition in channel or in the air. The British navy and coastal air defense would have inflicted heavy losses if Operation Sea Lion had ever been attempted. Hitler did the right thing by listening to his admirals.
By June 1940, the British Army stood at 1.65 million strong. Although it would have sucked to have lost 300,000 men as POWs or KIA, Britain would have gotten along.
#11. That’s what I understand also.
If for nothing else, the German people and their military were not a sea faring nation. Certainly not in the way Britain was. Hitler even admitted as much when he once observed “On land I am fearless but at sea I’m a coward’’. If Hitler has listened to Donitz and given him the Uboat fleet he wanted Britain would have been starved into submission.
Even if the Pacific events panned outas history shows with no English naval or military or even a base Hitler would not have declared war. And with England out there is the real chance the Japs attack Russia as the army wanted instead of the US. Then we become Fortress America and become a true garrison state.
If you accept the adage that war is diplomacy by violent means, the object was to achieve political and economic goals. If Hitler had forced Britain out of the war and into a cold peace, he would have consolidated his rule over Europe, resupplied his forces and would have been in a better position to challenge Stalin and the soviets. In fact it is plausible that a bankrupt , defeated Britain have used its merchant maritime fleet to trade with its former enemy. Germany would have achieved some its objectives and would have been in a better position to complete its aggression against the Soviets. The loss of 300,000 of its best troops and the specter of them in POW camps languishing, alone with a ferocious enemy across the Channel, would have induced Britain to seek peace. Hence Hitler’s failure to achieve a complete victory at Dunkirk was the turning point of the war. If Germany had won a complete victory at Dunkirk, it would have achieved the critical political and economic German objectives. Ultimately the military and economic power of Germany was destroyed on the Eastern front by the heroic Russian resistance at Moscow, Stalingrad and Kursk, the strategic bombing that largely originated from bases in England and Normandy.
BTW. Many Americans who exist today would have never been born if the Russians had not fought so heroically and had destroyed the might of the German army. Try to imagine the fight to recover Western Europe if the Russians had no decimated over 2,000,000 of Germany’s best troops.
For later.
L
As jmacusa said above, Hitler neglected the U-boats, making the blockade of Britain impossible plus, being unable to seize control of the English channel for lack of a navy, Germany could not have invaded England.
There would have been a stalemate. Hitler’s biggest mistake was invading an ‘ally,’ the USSR. He needed the oil and couldn’t do anything else to England. Dunkirk was not decisive.
Are you referring to this:
1936:
In February 1936, Lt. Col. Sugimoto Yasuo was ordered to form a detachment from the 14th Cavalry Regiment and, in the words of Lt. Gen Kasai Heijuro, "out the Outer Mongol intruders from the Olankhuduk region". Sugimoto's detachment included cavalry guns, heavy machine guns, and tankettes. Arrayed against him were 140 Mongolians, equipped with heavy machine guns and light artillery. On February 12, Sugimoto's men successfully drove the Mongolians south, at the cost of 8 men killed, 4 men wounded, and 1 tankette destroyed. After this, they began to withdraw, but were attacked by 5-6 Mongolian armored cars and 2 bombers, which briefly wreaked havok on a Japanese column. This was rectified when the unit obtained artillery support, enabling it to destroy or drive off the armored cars.
In March 1936, the Tauran incident occurred. In this battle, both the Japanese Army and Mongolian Army used a small number of armored fighting vehicles and military aircraft. The Tauran incident of March 1936 occurred as the result of 100 Mongolian and 6 Soviet troops attacking and occupying the disputed village of Tauran, Mongolia, driving off the small Manchurian garrison in the process. They were supported by a handful of light bombers and armored cars, though their bombing sorties failed to inflict any damage on the Japanese, and three of them were shot down by Japanese heavy machine guns. Local Japanese forces counter-attacked, running dozens of bombing sorties on the village, and eventually assaulting it with 400 men and 10 tankettes. The result was a Mongolian rout, with 56 soldiers being killed, including 3 Soviet advisors, and an unknown number being wounded. Japanese losses amounted to 27 killed and 9 wounded.
Later in March 1936, there was another border clash, this time between the Japanese and the Soviets. Reports of border violations led the Korea Army to send ten men by truck to investigate, but this party itself was ambushed by 20 NKVD soldiers deployed at a point 300 meters inside the territory claimed by the Japanese. After incurring several casualties, the IJA patrol withdrew, and brought up 100 men within hours as reinforcements, who then drove off the Soviets. However, fighting erupted later in the day when the NKVD also brought reinforcements. By nightfall, the fighting had stopped and both sides had pulled back. The Soviets agreed to return the bodies of 2 Japanese soldiers who died in the fighting, which was seen as encouraging by the Japanese government. In early April 1936, three Japanese soldiers were killed near Suifenho, in one of many minor and barely documented affrays. However, this incident was notable in that the Soviets again returned the bodies of the dead IJA servicemen.
You call that a "drubbing?"
Regards,
Yeah, I do. Look up The Nomomhan Incident, May 11-16, 1939. Regards.
You had specifically referenced "1936" - thus my puzzlement.
Regards,
My point was the Japanese took a beating at the hands of the Russians. I meant to say 1939, not ‘36.
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