Posted on 05/14/2019 8:28:26 AM PDT by BenLurkin
In 2015, retired geologist and marine ecologist Mario Wannier was examining samples of beach sand collected from Japan's Motoujina Peninsula, just 6 kilometres (3.7 miles) south of Hiroshima's hypocentre, or ground zero.
Primarily, Wannier and fellow researcher Marc de Urreiztieta were looking for traces of microscopic organisms called foraminifera in the sediment, but that's not all they found.
These strange glass spherule particles – some of which resemble the kind of glassy debris ejected into the atmosphere during meteorite impacts – are estimated to constitute up to 2.5 percent of all the sand in the beaches around Hiroshima.
Wannier ended up collecting some 10,000 samples of this unusual grit, which were examined by researchers at the Berkeley Lab and UC Berkeley, using electron microscopy and X-ray analysis.
(Excerpt) Read more at sciencealert.com ...
[[I just pointed out that killing babies is a crime “whether done by a bomb, abortion or a bayonet.”]]
So you agree that had we not ended the war quickly, the Japanese would have committed millions of crimes against American citizens then right? The fact that two bombs were dropped prevented us from having to escalate the war by bombing EVERY city in Japan
[[The crime is the killing;]]
Really? Because God ordered this in the old testament when Israel went to war- They left noone alive by order of God-
Was God a criminal? Your defense of the Japanese and vilification of America after we were attacked by cowards when we weren’t prepared is disturbing to say the least-
It is wrong because it violates God's prior rights as Lord and Giver of Life.
If God should personally order you to kill everyone without discrimination (as at the slaughter of the Amalekites in the OT, you might say?) --- then, and only then, the killing would not violate His rights.
But if he says that to you or anyone you know, keep in mind that first an assessment for delusional schizophrenic psychosis would be in order. And keep clear of me. I have no problem with shooting in direct self defense against proximate assault.
ah i see- the rule is it has to be proximate self defense in order to be justified- unbelievable- so in your mind- any collateral damage makes the aggressor a criminal?
Your defense of the Japanese and vilification of America after we were attacked by cowards when we weren’t prepared is disturbing to say the least-
The areas were not ‘indiscriminate targets’, they were strategic military targets intended to cripple the enemy militarily so badly that they surrendered- These ‘innocent civilians’ were working the factories that were making the weapons that were murdering Americans.
Both in Hiroshimo and Nagasaki, there were 1000’s of businesses creating weapons to murder Americans with- We didn’t just ‘indiscriminately drop the bombs hoping to kill as many civilians as we could’ Our government dropped leaflets telling the civilians we were going to do so and to leave the area-
Search “LeMay bombing Leaflet”- here’s a link:
in one of the leaflets it said “Bombs have no eyes’ meaning the bomb couldn’t pick and choose who was affected- so they should leave-
IF the bombs were not dropped- warplanes from the US would have had to drop bombs on nearly every city- killing millions-
Indiscriminate? HARDLY
Added- Here’s the link to the facts: Which i forgot in last post- please remove my last post mods- thanks:
https://www.debate.org/opinions/was-the-bombing-of-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-justified
Apparently you would have rather-ed on ongoing costly war where millions of Americans were killed?
PL:EASE NOTE- Japanese civilians were warned well in advance that America was going to drop the bombs- don’t give us this crap about how they were murdered unaware- They continued making weapons and ammunition that were meant to murder Americans in an ongoing war- They were given the choice to surrender- but they refused- several times- We warned and warned and warned them!- They ignored us and refused to surrender! Their government was responsible for their deaths- NOT Us- Their government decided their lives were not worth saving- NOT US! We gave them every chance to surrender peacefully- to end the atrocity which by the way was VERY GRACIOUS of us to offer considering it was Japan who attacked us first!
Enough with the ‘America sucks” please- Thanks!
Not proud of suction abortion and its moral equivalents, though.
Baby-killing --- by whatever means --- is part of what gave Nazism a bad name.
[[ I don’t apologize for God’s prohibition against shedding innocent blood,]]
When a nation goes to war against another nation- there is no ‘innocent blood’-
Our president had an OBLIGATION to protect American civilians by the most effective efficient means necessary within the guidelines of war- He had an obligation to protect those who signed up to defend this nation as well
If a president decides that his personal misguided religious objections are more important than protecting the lives of his citizens, then He is working for the enemy, not the nation-
IF a president does NOT cripple the aggressor’s means of war, cripple their will to fight on, then said president is negligent in their duty to it’s civilians and is undeserving of the presidency- and negligent in protecting their citizens!
What you are proposing is that Americans should have died in greater numbers because ‘innocent blood’ was shed in hiroshima and nagasaki- You talk about moral objectives- by claiming it was immoral to drop the bomb- but you ignore the fact millions of civilians on both sides would have died had the bomb not been dropped-
The Aggressor is responsible for whatever circumstances occur as a result of the aggression- the responsibility does NOT lie with the ones defending themselves-
A nation that is attacked has the moral right and moral obligation to defend itself, even if that means ‘innocent civilians’ in the aggressor country must die as a result of their government’s negligence to protect them- It is THEIR government that is responsible for their deaths- not the ones who are defending themselves-
Civilian casualties in war is a fact of life- period- and any government that decides to sneak attack another, is waging war on that nation knowing full well their citizens will be killed- to place the blame on the one defending themselves, and doing so in an effective manner that PREVENTED Millions more deaths on both sides- is uncalled for!
Here’s a shocking fact- Over 80% of the deaths in nearly ALL wars are civilians- War is hell- and any government that goes into war knows full well they will receive civilian casualties- and that government is responsible for the deaths of their civilians if they wage war on another nation
People living in the war zones whether civilian or military, in cities that are defended, like Hiroshima and Nagasaki, where factories are used to produce weapons of war, are in the danger zone, and it is THEIR government’s responsibility to remove them from this zone- NOT the defender’s responsibility-
HOWEVER, we as a nation went the extra mile and repeatedly warned the civilians in those areas we were coming- We didn’t have to do that! But we did! UNFORTUNATELY the people decided to stay and keep producing weapons of war to be used against our soldiers and our civilians had the war continued on-
to criticize a nation for attacking military positions in another country because it had civilians in the area is unconscionable- considering the FACT that had these cities not been attacked, the enemy would have had the means and products necessary to keep going in the war and to keep killing American soldiers overseas, and civilians here in our country when they attacked- likely from the air, with bombs that would kill OUR innocent civilians!
This ‘America sucks’ and the ‘Americans are criminals’ attitude of yours is baffling-
[[ I didn’t say “America sucks.” I am proud to be an American]]
That is correct, You never outright said it, but you are VERY STRONGLY implying it- your posts are unmistakably supporting the Japanese, using the excuse that ‘civilians are innocent and should never be casualties of war no matter where they live’, over Americans during a time of war- Again- Had we NOT attacked the cities that were making weapons of war, out of fear of civilians in the area, the war would have gone on and on and on and untold millions would have been killed on both sides- Would that have been justifiable to you? Millions of AMERICANS would have died in an ongoing way- MILLIONS of American civilians and babies- As Japan would have attacked us HERE in our own homeland-
It’s not too hard to see that ending the war QUICKLY an with as few casualties as possible ESPECIALLY after warning their civilians- was the most moral chose to make-
You claiming it wasn’t is your implicating America of ‘war crimes’, and very clearly is a false ‘America sucks for committing war crimes’ condemnation
Supporting the principle that killing babies is wrong.
Would you like to propose a definition of murder under which the intentional or indiscriminate killing of babies is not wrong?
Always looking for good definitions. By the way, I'm not only proud to be an American, I'm also proud to be the mother of a USMC Captain who pilots a Harrier close-combat fighter jet.
False. These are not bad babies, guilty babies, no matter what their parents, or their countries' leaders, have done or plan to do.
If babies are guilty because of their parents' crimes, then there is no innocent blood in America, because our country has allowed, legally defended, and in many cases paid for or facilitated, the killing of 60 million American babies.
But I don't consider that there is such a thing as "national guilt." Everybody who has not committed (or is not participating in or planning) a capital offense, is "innocent blood" in this sense.
Can you offer a coherent definition of murder which is applicable across situations and circumstances?
killing is not murder- period- in war=- waging war on someone is murder- defending oneself and one’s nation is NOT murder- no more so that it would be murder if a person broke into your home, threatened the inhabitants with murder- and was killed in self defense- There was NO indiscriminate murder-
I have given many reasons why it was the moral thing to do- you ignore it all and continue to call it murder- apparently you would have been a-ok with millions of people dying by an ongoing war- but yet you condemn our nation taking out cities that were producing arms that were used agaisnt our soldiers- and you justify your condemnation of America by claiming civilians who ignored warnings and dying as a result o f a bomb were innocent and America sucks for ending the war quickly and efficiently for the sake of BOTH sides-
[[By the way, I’m not only proud to be an American]]
No You’re not- You condemn America as murderers- because civilians ignored warnings to evacuate and were killed as a result- and by the way- Japan didn’t drop flyers over pearl harbor before they cowardly attacked us unaware- Your attitude towards the president during that time who had an immense decision to make is frankly disgusting-
the parents of those’ innocent babies’ condemned them to die by refusing to evacuate- you can NOT lay that on America- America did the RIGHT thing by warning the town to evacuate- that was much much more than enemy nations have done for us during war- condemning America for stopping the war by taking out major war manufacturing cities and crippling their nation’s war efforts, thus saving millions of lives, is disgusting!@
Google "police state."
The bottom line is: those who use indiscriminately lethal weapons of mass destruction, intend indiscriminate mass deaths.
It's a simple thing to admit, and makes you look out of touch with reality, if you don't.
"There's no innocent blood there" sounds a whole like Alyssa Milano's "Tere's no baby there."
again- disgusting- the sentiments coming out of your mouth are no different than John Kerry’s who ALSO hated America and accused America of being mass murdering baby killing war criminals!
100,000 is mass destruction? Think again- it SAVED Millions of lives- not sure what you and you ilk don’t understand about that! We were at war and gave the citizens EVERY OPPORTUNITY to leave the city before we bombed- going above and beyond what our enemies did to us- but you and your ilk still falsely accuse the us of being war criminals- while IGNORING the fact that the enemy was continuing to murder our soldiers and civilians- What you and Kerry accuse our country of is absolutely disgusting!
[[intend indiscriminate mass deaths.]]
BS- again we gave them every opportunity to evacuate- and your ‘police state’ is BS too- there weren’t enough authorities to keep the people there- don’t give me that crap to try to justify your hatred of America! Your accusations turn my stomach!
You misjudge. What you write tells me more about you than about me.
i don’t misjudge ANYTHING- you are flat out calling the nation of America an ‘innocent-baby murdering war criminal’- There was no misjudgement- you made your opinion perfectly clear- You accused America of ‘indiscriminate mass murder’ several times now- Your denial of that fact is more than telling!
To your point, they learned.
[[The bottom line is: those who use indiscriminately lethal weapons of mass destruction, intend indiscriminate mass deaths.
It’s a simple thing to admit,]]
[[Baby-killing -— by whatever means -— is part of what gave Nazism a bad name. ]]
[[”Some 100,000 humans of every age,sex, and condition (if they could put forth such an estimate) wee indiscriminately killed.”]]
[[intentional or indiscriminate killing of babies]]
You have accused the US of murder during war- which is a war crime- You accuse the US of murdering ‘innocent babies’ by dropping the bomb- even though those bombs stopped the deaths of millions of other civilians an ended the war as quickly as possible against a nation that would not surrender otherwise- and would continue fighting and killing our soldiers and their people by the millions- You evidently think it would have been fine for the war to continue, for the US to keep suffering massive losses- for every city in Japan to be bombed by less strong bombs, but no less lethal, in an effort to stop the war- you claim the bombs were unethical ‘weapons of mass destruction’- yet the nation of Jaspan was spared what could have been true mass destruction if we had been forced ot attack every city in a lengthy ongoing war- You won’t admit ot hte fact thast the cities we did bomb were producing weapons of war to be used to kill our soldiers- and used to invade our own country-
Hell- Even Hashimoto and other top Japanese officials stated the bombs on hiroshimo and nagasaki were needed to end the war- They admitted that otherwise Japan would have not surrendered, and massive casualties in America and Japan would have been the results- Many many many more ‘innocent babies and civilians’ would have died as a result- Millions more infact! But no- you- an American, condemn The US as ‘innocent-baby murdering war criminals’
You accuse the Us of ‘intending indiscriminate mass death’ even though we did everything we could to try to AVOID that by warning everyone BEFORE HAND of our intentions to destroy these military targets-
I don’t misjudge anything- your opinion of the US is loud and clear!
My USMC harrier pilot son knows civilians are not to be targeted: --- he was told it by the Marines.
It is to Americans' credit that we do prosecute war crimes even while the war is being fought, e.g. Lt. William Calley. This is what makes the USA different from ISIS.
It's why I am proud to be an American.
[[The targeted destruction of whole cities, or of whole geographical areas, together with their populations, is a war crime.]]
OK John Kerry- We still drop bombs that kill ‘innocent’ people all the time during war- 100’s of 1000’s of people were dying because of bombs dropped all throughout Japan up to that point- cities were destroyed- and cities get destroyed even today by dropping bombs- your statement is BS-
[[ It’s why I am proud to be an American.]]
BS- You think America is a nation of war criminals!
[[It is to Americans’ credit that we do prosecute war crimes]]
For crying out loud- it wasn’t a war crime- noone was prosecuted- and even hiromoto and other top Japanese officials knew it was necessary to prevent further war and millions of lives lost- nor are modern day bombings of cities and destruction of cities war crimes- enough already- your opinion is still disgusting- There was no damned war crime- and you and John Kerry and your ilk claiming there was is disgusting!
There is nothing you can say that will justify your anti-American BS- you know damn well many many many millions more people - civilians, babies, would have died if the war had not been ended so decisively- and yet you persist in accusing
America of war crimes- of being ‘innocent-baby murdering war criminals’, and your opinion is disgusting! and to further compound the disgusting attitude- you claim you’ love America’- In the real world- you don’t accuse the ones you love of heinous war crimes when there were none!
Our president had the obligation of defending this nation of ours- and doing so as quickly as possible- He gave the civilians there every opportunity to evacuate before dropping the bombs- every reasonable chance- and the blood that happened was on THEIR heads- not ours! Placing the blame on the US and accusing them of the very serious accusation of war crimes is a filthy lie- keep claiming you ‘love America- your words show otherwise!
[[The targeted destruction of whole cities, or of whole geographical areas, together with their populations, is a war crime.]]
What the hell are you talking about? Nagasaki and hiroshima were just blips compared to the bombs dropped on occupied cities through world war 2- the only difference was the type of bomb- whole cities were destroyed with non atomic bombs during world war 2- civilians and soldiers alike died in those cities- FAR LESS died in hiroshima and nagasaki than in other cities throughout the war- During the war NONE of our enemies warned us or our allies that their cities were about to be destroyed- none— Yet again- Not that we had to- but we gave every chance for civilians in Japan to flee as could flee- before we dropped our bombs on key Japanese military targets in those two cities— so don’t sit there and tell me how we are war criminals- you have selective outrage when the FACT of the matter is FAR MORE civilians were killed in other cities throughout europe during WW2- Nagasaki and hiroshima weren’t even a blip on the radar compared to those cities throughout the world- Wake up! 80+% of deaths in wars are civilians- that’s just a fact of warfare! But you want enemies to be cordial, have tea together- and make sure only soldiers are killed? Are you serious?
You and your ilk demand that war be nice and neat, and that ONLY soldiers be killed apparently- you demand that collateral damage never happen evidently- That’s NOT how war plays out in the real world- ever- Not in Iraq- not in Afghanistan, not in europe- not in the blakans- not in the middle east- nowhere! Entire cities are wiped out- entire ‘geographical areas’ as you put it- The fighting is fierce, and deadly- and necessary to our efforts to protect our own countries from enemy forces- But when civilians do end up dying, you and your ilk scream ‘war crimes’- just like true liberals-
Your accusation of ‘war crimes when collateral damage happens is DANGEROUS for our soldiers- Your accusation and apparent demand puts our military in danger- IF we can’t take out strategic military targets because it might mean casualties to civilians- then folks like you are hindering our progress and endangering the lives of our military because those targets will continue pumping out tanks, planes, gins, ammo- used to kill our soldiers- Not sure what you don’t understand about that-
What don’t you get about the FACT that not hitting hiroshima and nagasaki would have meant millions more deaths to the Japanese- to their citizens, to their babies? How in the hell can you justify advocating for continued war- millions of more deaths because you personally, selectively, objected to two strategic military towns being destroyed? Towns all over japan and europe were being wiped out by bombs- Yet you spew moral outrage over just these two towns? Which incidentally stopped the war with Japan and saved countless millions of lives as a result!
[[My USMC harrier pilot son knows civilians are not to be targeted:]]
No- you are correct- a soldier can’t walk down the street shooting civilians- but that is NOT hat we’re talking about here! Nto by a long shot- as you well know- we still bomb areas of strategic concern even when there are civilians in the area- and civilians still get caught up in the bombings and consequent gunfire- That is a fact of war! It can’t be helped- NOT if we are serious about protecting our nation and soldiers, and winning the war as quickly and efficiently and casualty free as possible-
To think that civilians do not get, or even should not get killed in the crossfire in war is naive at best- dangerous at worst- and when they do- the airplanes that dropped the bombs, the soldiers that were engaged in firefights, and tanks that fire into buildings are NOT convicted of ‘war crimes’ even when civilians regrettably die in the process-
Calling America war criminals because of collateral damage when we did everything we could to make sure the civilians evacuated=- is just shameful!
America, at its best, is far better than this. I think we're through.
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