Posted on 04/20/2019 2:59:37 PM PDT by Jonty30
This video explains really well.
I think Boeing is going to take a loss on this plane big time.
“This sounds like the same kind of thing the first Airbus aircraft software was accused of when they first rolled them out. Their software would override the natural instincts of a professional pilot.”
As I read this I thought about a car I bought not long ago, to replace the same model car I owned that was getting a bit old. The new car had all electronic steering, and it just didn’t ‘feel’ right. I actually felt it was somewhat unstable at highway speeds, as did lots of other customers. The company did some software workarounds, but it has never had the same touch/feel of my older car. I can imagine how that would affect pilots who were used to a specific type of airplane response to their actions.
Everyone misses the fact that Airbus and Boeing are making airplanes that they need to sell to third world countries with low time, inexperienced pilots.
...
I’ve been thinking that since the first crash. If Boeing wants to compete with Airbus in the third world they’ll have to make their aircraft foolproof.
Can you build the computer you are clicking away on like a prepubescent keyboard warrior? If not, shut up.
After further watching the crash video I believe it is not a 737 since upon a closer look the plane crashing in the video is a 4 engine Jet, and the 737 is a 2 engine jet. -Tom
It was Air France that took a plunge into the Atlantic. It really 3rd World.
Thanks for posting that video; it was very helpful.
I like to watch the Smithsonian Channel show “Air Disasters” that covers various aviation disasters and the following investigations to determine the cause(s). The resulting “lessons learned” from each disaster led to improved products, procedures or training. Future lives were saved at the cost of lives lost in each crash.
On thing I noticed in a decent number of episodes was that the sequence of events leading to the crash BEGAN with faulty Angle of Attack information (from bird strike damage to AOA mechanism or the AOA being frozen in place for example). Your posted link’s video explained that one of software changes is to make the 737’s system redundantly rely on BOTH AOA sensors instead of only one at a time. With the critical importance of AOA information, I think it would be good to have a third AOA sensor (protected from normal exposure to environmental hazards) on planes that automatically “popped out” when potential problems were indicated on either or both of the primary AOA sensors that are always environmentally exposed.
Anyhow, thanks for the informative link.
Nope.
But the culture and society I live in, and grew up in, can and did.
The more we supply the needs of the 3rd world, they less they’ll ever do for themselves. The more that part of the world stagnates.
Harm often wraps itself in the slogans of kindness. Just ask any leftist.
Your anger betrays you.
Tell me again what words I’m allowed to say.
But bring your weapons and a whole lot of friends.
Semper Fi, Mac.
It’s the punitive damages that will put Boeing under as they file bankruptcy. They were too cheap to address the real problem.
Best you not comment on this subject till you do some homework.
AOAs are nice but, based on my time as an A-10 and F-15E fighter pilot, AOA is simply not that critical of a system. Fighters fly all sorts of maneuvers at all sorts of air speeds and attitudes that are far more extreme than some straight and level commercial jet, and having lost an AOA (Bird strike low level route) you just fly the jet. You, if you are trained properly, you know the AOA without some gauge. If it looks right and feels right, then the AOA is nice but you won’t lose control or fall out of the sky if you lose the gauge.
“The yoke trim button over-rides MCAS.”
You do not have a good understanding. The interaction between the two is way more complicated than what you think. The MCAS output comes in timed waves. During those waves then MCAS does appear to have priority. Using the Yoke buttons did not disable it. The method for disabling the MCAS also disabled the Yoke controls(As explained). If this were not the case then the plane would have never crashed.
I rode in a 737-900 a couple of years ago. I liked it.
TexasGator you also claimed to be an expert on that Waco Twin Peaks mass shooting. How did that work out for you?
Some have noticed that you never show up on any of those threads anymore. Is this going to be more of the same?
Yes, surviving your plane rides is part of the joy of flying.
I have a good understanding.
I did not say it disabled the MCAS as you stated.
Too simple. Those planes are extreme complexity control systems. This up is overly simple. Life Is rarely that simple. It would be nice and neat but it’s BS. I’m no Boring. Cheerleader but reality? J
So right you are.
” During those waves then MCAS does appear to have priority.”
It either does or does not. explain.
Few things suck worse than living long enough to become an unwitting satire of yourself.
:)
"IMO, the chain of decision leading to the current MCAS design was something like:
Up to this point, everything is cool. If things had been left at that, MAX would have been as safe as NG. Even marginally safer, in the vast majority of the flight envelope and, with an operative MCAS, across 100% of the envelope.
Note: switching only STAB TRIM CUTOFF AUTO-PILOT to CUTOFF while leaving STAB TRIM CUTOFF MAIN ELECT to NORMAL would have disabled all automations while leaving the electrical stab trim servo operative, to help pilots cope with aero loads on the stabilizer via thumb switches. Both Lion Air and Ethiopian crashes could easily have been avoided.
Enter the bad guy (circa 2011): the commercial imperative to avoid simulator training at all costs. Clients are clamoring for minimal transitions costs, and an over-eager sales manager, desperate to secure a mega-order out of Airbus hands, has promised to SW a 1M$/plane discount if any simulator training will be needed. That's a 280M$ penalty at stake. Who's gonna pay that kind of money, you? Then back to the design table and make that training requirement go away. Pronto: flight testing is just a few years away.
Conjecture, yes, but IMO its chillingly fits.
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