Posted on 03/21/2019 10:46:24 AM PDT by rickmichaels
In fact, what reason is there nowadays to trust either government or the medical establishment, period?
“In fact, what reason is there nowadays to trust either government or the medical establishment, period?”
Are you old enough to have had childhood friends crippled by polio?
“Science” has devolved into grant-seeking politically correct whoring—and then the scientists are surprised when nobody trusts them.
lol
“Patrick Henry would have been an anti-vaxxer.”
Hmm, “Give me death instead of preventative medicine” doesn’t really have the same ring to it.
“Are you old enough to have had childhood friends crippled by polio?
And many got polio by being vaccinated...
I’m not anti-vax but Gardasil is in a category all its own. The way it was fast-tracked through FDA approval was unprecedented. There wasn’t even enough time to prove effectiveness since the cycle of HPV leading to cervical cancer is very slow. Want herd immunity for your child from STDs? Teach them self control.
That's what I find troubling about it. Why so many at once for such young babies?
“And many got polio by being vaccinated...”
A patently dishonest objection because it omits the most salient fact of that tragedy.
It wasn’t vaccine that the kids were injected with, it was actual live polio virus.
This was one of the first batches of the Salk vaccine and the inexperienced manufacturer failed to kill the virus.
The fact that the anti vaccine crowd doesn’t include that part of the story tells you all you need to know about their commitment to honesty.
“It wasn’t vaccine that the kids were injected with, it was actual live polio virus.”
Fact: the vaccine contained the live virus.
Fact: people, including Salk’s daughter, got polio.
Fact: in the same way, other inclusions in vaccines were unknown at the time, but were bad.
“Patrick Henry would have been an anti-vaxxer.”
I’m pretty sure that Governor Patrick Henry supported Gen’l George Washington’s inoculation request. Read the last two paragraphs of the following:
https://www.armyheritage.org/75-information/soldier-stories/209-smallpox
During the Revolutionary War, one of the greatest threats to the Army came not from enemy bullets, but from disease. Perhaps the most dreaded disease was smallpox, caused by a virus that kills one out of every three infected people. Because smallpox was common in England, most British soldiers had already been exposed and were immune, but the disease was less common in America and the average Continental Soldier was not.
As early as 1775, General George Washington knew smallpox was a serious problem for his Army. Throughout the fall and into the winter of 1775, an outbreak raged in the city of Boston. Rumors abounded that the British were deliberately spreading the disease. When the British finally evacuated Boston in March 1776, only Soldiers who had already had the disease were allowed into the city. Washington ordered his doctors to keep a sharp watch for smallpox and to send infected men to the isolation hospital immediately.
Washington faced a difficult choice: whether or not to inoculate his Army. Inoculated Soldiers would develop a mild case of the disease which most would survive. They would then be immune. His other option was to do nothing other than isolate and treat the sick and hope the Army avoided a major outbreak. There were three problems with inoculation. The first was that inoculated Soldiers could transmit smallpox until fully recovered, so an inoculation program could trigger an uncontrollable epidemic. Secondly, the inoculated Soldiers would be unfit for duty for weeks while recovering, and as many as 2% of his Soldiers could die. If the British attacked while the men were out of commission the Army could be destroyed. The third was that the inoculation process was simple enough that the men could do it themselves in secret.
Smallpox struck the Northern Army at Quebec, where many officers and men were secretly inoculating themselves, thus intensifying the epidemic. According to General Benedict Arnold, some 1,200 of the approximately 3,200 Continentals in the Montreal area were unfit for duty, most of them sick with smallpox. By the end of May 1776, the situation of Northern Department patients was “almost Sufficient to excite the pity of Brutes, Large barns [being] filled with men at the very heighth of smallpox and not the least things, to make them comfortable and medicines being needed at both Fort George and Ticonderoga.”
Smallpox threatened the destruction of the entire Army. Major General John Thomas, Commander of the Army in Quebec, died of smallpox. “The smallpox,” mourned John Adams, “is ten times more terrible than Britons, Canadians and Indians, together.” By mid-July 1776, an estimated three thousand men of the Northern Army were sick, most with smallpox. Eventually the epidemic eased and General Gates wrote to Washington that “the Smallpox is now perfectly removed from the Army.” What exactly occurred has been lost to history, but sources suggest that the Northern Army proceeded with an inoculation program without authorization.
This was a risky move. Until mid-1776, the only authorized preventative measure was isolation of the sick. Inoculation was forbidden, though many Soldiers secretly inoculated themselves. When Washington moved his Army to New York, he established a smallpox isolation hospital on an island in the East River and ordered a halt to all inoculations. The general warned that “any disobedience to this order will be most severely punished.” The Continental Congress supported Washington, and when a private physician in the State of New York was caught inoculating soldiers he was jailed.
Despite these precautions, smallpox fear grew among the men of the Continental Army. Recruiting suffered, and by late June, official attitudes toward inoculation began to change. Despite precautions, the illness continued to spread. By August 1776, some troops were being inoculated in segregated camps.
Washington still feared triggering an epidemic, so he took careful precautions to ensure the isolation of soldiers undergoing inoculation, moving them out of Philadelphia and into nearby segregated hospitals. He suggested sheltering newly infected soldiers in houses in the remote countryside and urged that inoculated Soldiers remain in isolation until fully recovered, and then issued either new or “well washed, air’d and smoaked” clothing. He recommended that the individual states immunize their recruits before sending them to join the Army.
In February 1777, while encamped at Morristown, Washington became convinced that only inoculation would prevent the destruction of his Army. Emphasizing the need for secrecy and speed, Washington ordered the inoculation of all troops. Because Virginia forbade inoculation, Washington asked Governor Patrick Henry to support the program, writing that smallpox “is more destructive to an Army in the Natural way, than the Enemy’s Sword.”
In the end, the gamble paid off. Fewer than 1% of the Soldiers died from being inoculated, and the program was so successful in controlling smallpox that he repeated it in the Valley Forge winter of 1778.
“Fact: the vaccine contained the live virus.”
Since you choose to omit the fact that it was done in error you have made your own lack of honesty evident.
Thanks for clarifying your intention to mislead.
“Since you choose to omit the fact that it was done in error you have made your own lack of honesty evident.”
It is wonderful to imagine you can read minds, but you cannot.
Until you demonstrate the facts I stated are false, you are blowing smoke and pretending you know motives. You do not.
My point was not about the circumstances that led to a live polio virus being included in a vaccine, but the simple statement that *a large number of children were crippled for life because they got the polio vaccine*.
Leaving out pertinent information is done in order to deceive.
You did it, twice, you get to own it.
Nah. You’re bloviating. Facts remain.
“Nah. You’re bloviating. Facts remain.”
The facts do indeed remain.
Including the ones that you chose to conceal about the 1955 Cutter Labs incident, where live virus got into the serum.
The Salk vaccine was never designed with live virus. The Cutter Labs incident was a tragic laboratory mistake, but then acknowledging that won’t promote the anti-vaccine agenda of discrediting vaccination itself.
I just missed the U.S. polio epidemic of the 1950s, but I had slightly older friends and family that did not. An older cousin spent time in an iron lung and I knew several older kids who had to wear leg braces to walk. After just a few years of polio vaccinations, polio went from an epidemic to being almost completely eradicated in the U.S. The last polio outbreak in the U.S. was among Amish children who were not vaccinated.
“Including the ones that you chose to conceal ”
No. I didnt conceal anything. I made a simple statement.
Many children got polio from the polio vaccine.
Still true.
There’s a reason that judges advise witnesses to tell the whole truth. It’s to keep them from telling half-truths like what you are doing.
The vaccine was contaminated with live virus. The fact that you leave out.
“The vaccine was contaminated with live virus. The fact that you leave out.”
This is a discussion forum.
You added something to the conversation that is important.
Just leave off the mind-reading and impugning my motives.
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