Posted on 03/20/2019 6:17:38 AM PDT by central_va
I have about 200+ hours in single engine and some instrument time though I never got that ticket. VFR for ever.
Ok, let me ask you pro's: Even if the elevator trim is jammed nose down (FOR WHATEVER REASON!) in a commercial jet and cannot be neutralized ( FOR WHATEVER REASON) can human strength overcome that and pull the nose up anyway?
Can someone please answer that question?
I cannot speak as to how to out wit a flight computer, but I suspect your concerns about pilot training are valid.
None taken. Sucks to be a commercial pilot. I’d trust humans over computers even though the pilot may have to work for living....
I think you meant MS flight simulator.
Everything I said run by automated control systems. Think about your home thermostat...do you want to sit there and turn your furnace on manually for 10 minutes every hour? Are you so “lazy”you won’t do that?
No modern technology would be possible without automated control. Every factory, power plant, refinery, elevator, climate control, power distribution, pipeline, building elevator, truck, train, car, cement kiln, steel mill, chemical plant, lumber mill, ship, satellite, fiber optic system, and mine you use directly or indirectly today has automated control. You will probably use a million control systems directly and indirectly today.
None of those would be possible without automated control systems, “Lazy” has absolutely nothing to do with it.
I responded to central_va’s first post that did not specify the category of the problem.
261 had made a common in flight trim adjustment when their jack screw mechanically stripped the threads probably from improper lubrication.
If I was being paid $100K/yr I'd do it. It is not the same thing. My furnace is not cruising at 30K feet with 200 people hanging on it.
Altitude hold and wing stabilization is not the same as the computer taking over the operation of the ENTIRE AIRCRAFT. Is it asking to much for the pilot to fly the plane for 10 minutes during climb out and 20 minutes during the approach? Is that asking too much?
Well the AOA (angle of attack) feeds a computer that tells the elevator what to do. You have to override the computer. I guess Boeing didn’t get the message through on how to override it. I’ll bet the pilots were pulling back on the yoke like crazy as the plane was going down but the computer was overriding their input. IMHO.
Yes, that is the bottom line.
You would figure that they (Boeing) would have placarded the emergency override procedure and had it attached to the yoke.
Not a pilot but I do know quite a lot about aircraft. As such, I would think the answer to your question would depend on the control system being used. Fly-by-wire? Or actual, physical cable control? Cables? Then it would depend on what has the trim jammed.
It shows in 737max simulator the trim controls and override switches.
I guess you could do like Denzel Washington, and roll the airplane inverted.
/s
The balance tab is like an aerodynamic “power assist”. It’s not a trim tab.
And this is an airplane developed in the mid 1970's.
Tell that to all those dead passengers.
There is no excuse or justification for an in flight computer to override the pilot’s manual inputs. Don’t even try.
So where is the trim tab? Is there one?
As someone who has designed, built and maintained automated systems where multiple conditions need to be considered and tested it's mind blowing that this MCAS doesn't factor in the pilot or proximity to ground.
From an earlier thread; “Since it operates in situations where the aircraft is under relatively high g load and near stall, a pilot should never see the operation of MCAS. As such, Boeing did not include an MCAS description in its FCOM.” (flight control operations manual) The explainer continues: “In this case, MCAS will trim nose as designed to assist the pilot during recover, likely going unnoticed by the pilot.”
according to a Tuesday report in The Wall Street Journal: “One high-ranking Boeing official said the company had decided against disclosing more details to cockpit crews due to concerns about inundating average pilots with too much information — and significantly more technical data — than they needed or could digest."
It seems the average VFR pilot is more proficient in actually flying than the pros. Heck the plane I flew didn’t have anything automated. I did it all. It did have GPS and elevator trim. That’s about it.
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