Posted on 03/12/2019 6:57:43 AM PDT by C19fan
Britain has banned all Boeing 737 Max 8 aircrafts from flying in its airspace following the Ethiopian Airlines disaster om Sunday.
The decision made by investigators comes after the fatal Ethiopian Airlines Boeing Max 8 crash shortly after take-off from Addis Ababa led to the deaths of 157 people onboard.
The UK is now among Australia, Singapore, China, Indonesia and Malaysia who have banned the aircraft.
A spokesperson for the Civil Aviation Authority said: 'As we do not currently have sufficient information from the flight data recorder we have, as a precautionary measure, issued instructions to stop any commercial passenger flights from any operator arriving, departing or overflying UK airspace.
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
The problem is with the overall design of the plane itself. The body profile has been out since the ‘60s, and hasn’t changed much except for length. When Boeing set out to make this variant, they stuck with the body design, but changed the wing configuration to change the position of the engine nacelles to accommodate the new propulsion system. The plane now has a natural tendency to go nose-up, so the MCAS system was implemented to keep the flight path stable. It’s an inherently unstable configuration, but as long as the sensors are working properly, the plane will fly fine. But with a faulty sensor telling the MCAS that it needs to move the nose down, the pilots suddenly finds their self fighting the plane’s actions.
The pilots who fly MAX equipment are aware of the issue, but have not been trained properly to react to an MCAS failure.
The MAX configuration was released in mid-2017. To date, there have only been about 340 delivered worldwide. Prior to the Lion Air crash, very few major US-based carriers even had simulation equipment specific to that model. To date, American, Southwest, and Delta have added MAX sims, but United has not. The installation of these simulators have been very recent, and with thousands of pilots to train, most have not been through hands-on training on how to react to the MCAS scenario.
Immediately after the Lion Air crash, pilots complained bitterly that they were not properly trained on how to react to this problem. Jon Weaks, president of the Southwest Airlines Pilot Association said that the pilots “were kept in the dark.” He also said “We do not like the fact that a new system was put on the aircraft and wasn’t disclosed to anyone or put in the manuals.” The move from the older 737 NG model cockpit to the new 737 Max system consisted of little more than a one-hour session on an iPad, according to Dennis Tajer, the spokesman for the APA.
These incidents are occurring at low altitude and with very little time to react. Decisions need to be made quickly while under duress — all the while at the same time fighting the aircraft’s actions. The Lion Air flight crashed within 13 minutes of the flight. The Ethiopian flight within 6. Both experienced issues only minutes at the tale end of those time frames, and both flights were at an altitude that is not very forgiving.
These planes need to be grounded all over until a definitive answer can be discovered, and proper training initiated on MAX-specific simulators. We have too many of these flying right now to take a risk otherwise.
It’s very easy to override. The pilots who flew the Indonesia accident aircraft had the same decent problems as the crash pilots but knew how to override and made the flight safely.
It’s a training problem.
This isn’t terrorism. The planes reportedly have a stall sensor that is malfunctioning.
As I understand, there is no simulator of the 737 Max, so this nose down emergency has not been practiced and learned how to correct over computer before actually flying the 737 Max. JMHO
There’s one report of the smoke...................
I’m noticing both operators (and the crashes) are in warmer climates. This may be a factor.
Good point.
FAA Signals Confidence in Airworthiness of Boeing 737 Max After 2nd Deadly Crash March 12, 2019
Not being able to override is a fatal idea!
The problem is that the designers do not trust the pilot to override their design philosophy.
Flying is not dangerous, it is just terribly unforgiving of careless mistakes.
My initial impression is it is a fatal flaw. Instead of designing a stable plane, they cut corners to make it work.
Most “Third world countries” are in warmer climates. Climate is not, at all, involved in these accidents. Draw your conclusion.
The airlines Aerolineas Argentinas, Aeromexio, Cayman Airways, Comair, Ethiopian, Gol, and Royal Air Maroc have also all grounded the 737 MAX.
And now Canada, home of the second largest user of the 737 MAX -- Air Canada -- is Considering All Options
The FAA here in the US needs to provide some leadership here and do the same.
“Climate is not, at all, involved in these accidents.”
How can you draw this conclusion when none of the experts have done so?
Warmer weather, more humid weather, and less humid weather can and does affect the performance of aircraft. If a sensor is not correctly calculating the impacts of local climate then the calculated density altitude and pressure altitudes can be wrong. That could lead the flight computer to determine the aircraft is in a stall when in fact it is not.
Given that these aircraft have their final assembly in a relatively cool and wet Renton, Washington then there’s a good chance they were calibrated for Renton and not recalibrated for their new service locations.
No U.S. airlines have grounded the Boeing 737 Max 8 models that they fly, but at least one group representing flight attendants at a major carrier says it does not want to put its members on the plane until further investigations are completed.
After the second deadly crash involving the model in five months, several airlines and countries in Asia, Europe and the Middle East have grounded it or banned it from their airspace.
The Association of Professional Flight Attendants, which represents more than 26,000 flight attendants at American Airlines, called on CEO Doug Parker to “strongly consider grounding these planes until an investigation can be performed.” The group said flight attendants will not be forced to fly if they feel unsafe.
It’s a training problem.
Yes, one may say there is a training problem because the pilots should have known what to do. However, while there probably is a training problem, it is not the problem.
It is like having a car that may occasionally decide to automatically and with no warning veer hard to the left, but if I step on the brake and turn the high beam lights on three times, and press the car horn to the tune of Yankee Doodle ... I will disengage that shunt to the left and can safely drive the car.
So, yes - there is a training for the car. Step on the brakes, then the high beam lights on and off three times, and press the horn to the tune of Yankee Doodle - and once that is done the car will behave. If I don’t do that, there is definitely a training problem.
However, some MIGHT say that there is a damn bad problem with the car as well. That maybe the car shouldn’t be able to go mad and veer hard to the left.
In the same way, training issue or none - even though the pilots who flew the LION Air plane immediately before the crew that crashed in October managed to resolve the issue, maybe the plane shouldn’t have been trying to transform into a plough or lawn dart in the first place?
Just maybe it is more than a training issue - maybe it is a training issue but also an issue to do with an aircraft that MAY have sensor issues, software issues or other issues that while not a problem MOST of the time, MAY cause a problem at a very sensitive part of the flight regime.
Very good description of MCAS;
https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-safety/what-is-the-boeing-737-max-maneuvering-characteristics-augmentation-system-mcas-jt610/
Boeing says pilots can easily override the system, and it’s covered in the manual. The pilots that previously flew the LIon Air accident aircraft did disable the MCAS system and made their flight safely. The accident pilots didn’t. It seems to be a training/awareness problem. We don’t yet know if MCAS was the cause of the most recent accident.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/boeing-to-upgrade-737-max-flight-control-software-456540/
Also witnesses said the Ethiopian plane was was trailing smoke and debris before it crashed;
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ethiopia-airplane-witnesses/ethiopian-airlines-plane-trailed-smoke-debris-before-crash-witnesses-idUSKBN1QS1LJ
MCAS can be overridden, see post 36.
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