Posted on 11/18/2018 1:19:55 PM PST by BenLurkin
One of the Max 8's new features is an anti-stalling device, the maneuvering characteristics augmentation system (MCAS). If the MCAS detects that the plane is flying too slowly or steeply, and at risk of stalling, it can automatically lower the airplane's nose.
It's meant to be a safety mechanism. But the problem, according to Lion Air and a growing chorus of international pilots, was that no one knew about that system.
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Investigators are currently examining whether an angle of attack (AOA) sensor on the outside of the Lion Air plane transmitted incorrect data that could have triggered the MCAS to force the plane's nose down.
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Investigators said that the day before the crash, the jet experienced problems with its AOA sensor, which was replaced. The last four flights -- including, crucially, the flight that crashed, according to Soerjanto Tjahjono, the head of Indonesia's National Transportation Safety Committee (KNKT) also had problems.
On Wednesday, the Wall Street Journal reported that Southwest Airlines, a US carrier that also has a fleet of MAX 8 planes, replaced two malfunctioning AOA sensors, during the three weeks before the Lion Air crash.
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A Federal Aviation Authority (FAA) emergency directive sent to all MAX 8 operators on November 7 explained that pilots can stop a malfunctioning automated system on those planes by pressing two buttons.
The FAA bulletin said that all carriers were to revise their manuals within three days. "This condition, if not addressed, could cause the flight crew to have difficulty controlling the airplane, and lead to excessive nose-down attitude, significant altitude loss, and possible impact with terrain,"
(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...
[Isn’t that the flight where the pilot allowed his kid to fly the plane?]
No, that was a Russian plane. As I recall, the kid was about 15 years old. Rolled the a/c into an uncontrollable dive. I’ll have to watch the video again.
Aeroflot Flight 593
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1kPAWVI5UA
In Air France 447, since the pitot tubes had iced over, the auto-pilot was unable to determine the speed of the aircraft. It therefore disconnected, as it should have, alerting the pilots to take manual control.
At their FL it was a narrow corridor, speed-wise, to fly properly. Some say about 10 mph. While some procedures did call for a slight nose-up, it should have been obvious by the altimeter that they had stalled, as predictable. The airflow was no longer keeping the plane at stable altitude. They needed to descend to lower altitude where the thicker air would allow the wings to fly again (to a controllable degree). Apparently one pilot did not know what the other one was doing. By the time they realized it, it was too late. They were too low and the sink rate was too high. One of them expressed a curse word just before they pancaked into the water.
That’s not a comprehensive overview, just a quick summary.
>ping<
You don’t know what you’re talking about.
For accuracy, that should be “Russian airline”, but the a/c was an Airbus A310.
I’ve got a few friends flying the new 737 Max. They love it. This crash is puzzling.
Rereading again. They did in fact halt the dive. But unfortunately over-corrected and went near-vertical, which then resulted in the final stall (Aeroflot subsidiary airline - Airbus A310 had been delivered new, on lease).
It was the relief pilot’s children. Making a total of 5 occupants on the flight deck at one time.
They were scheduled to fly to Kai Tak Airport. Which has since been closed. (20 years ago)
Not if the plane isn't really flying too slowly or steeply, the computer just thinks that it is.
Pretty clearly a defect, if Southwest is having the same problem with the sensors.
This one looks to land at Boeing's door. They installed a defective sensor (inadequate testing of the supplier part) and they didn't tell the pilots how to override the software 'feature'.
FUD all you want, but it's clear where the liability is going to end up. Maybe the component supplier can kick in, as well.
Two quick question, so I don't have to track it down - who makes the part for Boeing, and is it a Chinese made part?
Even better to put it in the manual in the first place. Did you miss this nugget?
"The FAA bulletin said that all carriers were to revise their manuals within three days."
I guess a super pilot knows about all the undocumented "features" that the manufacturer puts on the plane but doesn't tell anyone about or how to turn off when they malfunction?"
Simple facts here
1. Boeing is installing a bad part (multiple airlines have had problems).
2. The bad part is linked to software which can cause a plane to crash if the part malfunctions.
3. The software is needed because the wing is inadequate for the engines selected (save a few dollars).
4. The software can be disabled when the malfunction occurs, but Boeing didn't put the method for simply doing so in the manuals, so the pilots didn't know which buttons to push.
The root cause analysis shouldn't take very long.
The Feds have opted for the simple fix - add a bit to the manuals. No one is going to go with the basic fix (re-design the wing), but eventually, they may fix the sensor. (Hey Boeing folks - who makes that sensor that keeps failing?)
Analysis not complete, barely begun.
Disconnect EVERTHING and hand fly, it was VFR
Disconnect everything, and you'll be sitting on the tarmac in a 'fly by wire' plane.
Well you really don’t know anything about disconnect or fly by wire.
Disconnect EVERTHING and hand fly, it was VFR
Disconnect everything, and you’ll be sitting on the tarmac in a ‘fly by wire’ plane.
The “Scare”bus is the Euro product that is computer dependent...
Why don’t you post a video sometime of you flying a modern jetliner with only electrical backups after you disconnect “Everything”. (No cheating with one that has mechanical backup).
I hate VF——but this is a great article .
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/business/2014/10/air-france-flight-447-crash
.
How are those spoilers going to work for you?
How are those spoilers going to work for you?
Don’t get the question.
Spoilers are operated manually by raising the spoiler lever, or deployed automatically when armed using the same lever, and the WOW switch is activated.
Well I don’t have a video but I do have 25,000+ hrs pilot time.
back to you expert
I am not sure if the comment lacked /s on purpose.
It would appear you place some blame on the software/computer system, and you would be correct in my opinion. Some of what engineers and designers have designed, could be just the opposite of pilot training and reactions to stimuli. That conundrum is part of the learning and training process so that ultimately there is no difference that needs deciphering between the human brain and the other one. We seem to generally be doing well on that account.
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