Posted on 02/05/2018 12:41:01 PM PST by Strac6
“I wish I had my old Jungle Fatigues...”
I still have mine. Sadly, they don’t fit quite like they use to,......or at all for that matter.
Were you an MP?
Nothing but the best for our boys in green!
“Were you an MP?”
Yes, I was one of the lucky ones.
MP School Ft Gordon, Apr & May ‘69.
291st MP Company, Redstone Arsenal, AL. May ‘69 - Apr ‘70
MACV Team 14, May - Nov ‘70, MACV PMG, Dec ‘70 - May ‘71
41st MP Detachment, St Louis MO, Jun - Dec ‘71
and then 60 days Early Out.
Okay. However, the "dark" blue/gray camis stand out against the solid haze gray ship paint. I don't get that reasoning.
I don't know, either. That was what I was told and he was a part of that uniform board. Maybe they were all on drugs at the time. :-)
I hate to say that you're making assumptions that a civilian would make - but you are.
If a contract was let to Mossy Oak for a new set of utilities, they would have to be able to fulfill the whole set of requirements that go with it: wearability, resistance to fading after many washes, accommodation of a wide range of sizes, ability to survive a range of chemicals (the first sets of Jungle Utilities completely dissolved when exposed to mild acid), flame resistance, and reduced heat signature when viewed by IR/Thermal sights.
That contract would get expensive, fast - it's not the same as buying clothes off the shelf at the sporting goods store.
You served in the Corps - When? Where?
Semper Fi
I was in 83 to 05
Germany, Ft. Belvoir, VA, Recruiting in St Joseph, Mo,, Germany, the Netherlands, Ft. Sill, OK, AC/RC outside Pittsburgh, Korea for t who and a half years, then finished at Ft. Leonard Wood. All mostly good. Except recruiting maybe.
Thanks for your service
Speaking for myself and my shipmates, thank you so much for that. Few understand we were just one bad decision or mistake away from being blown in half. We were constantly shadowed by Soviet surface ships and subs. Sometimes I wished I was on the ground with a weapon in hand to give me a fighting chance, even if in the suck.
My most respect has always been for you in-country grunts.
You again misunderstand (either intentionally or other...).
And you again blast me for not serving after our previous exchange?
Seriously - your instability appears to be borderline psychotic. Context is a funny thing - and it sure helps to grasp what is written. A basic skill apparently that has been missed or avoided by so many of our day, and often results in knee-jerk responses or action that rarely, if ever, is constructive.
Lets see - to possibly help you out, since it appears your ability to process rationally through a discussion you are trying to participate in is limited:
The whole thread started about the upcoming deadline for soldiers to have the new uniforms. The discussion then turns to the cost and how they got to this point - with lots of (legitimate) questions regarding not only costs, but more pointedly - after several have researched it, we find that the previous pattern/design (digital) was ineffective and even dangerous in some scenarios. OK - fine. How did we get to that pattern? Apparently it as approved without the mandatory field testing - somebody lined their pockets with the profits that were gained by flagrantly disregarding established policy and rules.
Nobody that I’m aware of posted anything suggesting we should just keep our soldiers in what could be a threat to their lives. What I DID express was the general taxpayer disgust (which is a similar disgust even among most vets who have not gone off their rocker) - as nobody likes to see wasted taxpayer dollars.
When those responsible follow the correct channels, correct procedure, and actually do their jobs - we don’t have these rapid uni changes that actually introduce danger to our troops - and thus not only jeopardize our service people, but waste vast sums that could be used for the actual weapons systems and/or training.
Lest we forget - we still are dealing with a defense procurement system that has no problem spending $thousands for a hammer or toilet seat (and yes, I know it wasn’t just a standard toilet seat).
I want the US military to be the best, most highly-trained, best-equipped, and efficient military in the world. One that any nation would be foolish to mess with. One that is so good that they rarely even have to actually be used. When they are used -they should be absolutely supported and be allowed to do the job they are called to do without the stupid politics that seem to always get in the way. I want them to be able to not worry about counting the bullets or bombs necessary to get the job done.
Sadly, our current system has allowed waste to hamper readiness, yet puts lives in jeopardy, all while waisting vast sums of taxpayer funds on uniform changes that now are being, basically, un-done.
And if you read my previous posts before blasting me (yet again), you would have seen that I recognized the current need after others chimed in regarding the pattern/design that was actually endangering soldiers.
You're being sarcastic, right? When I re-enlisted for Rota, Spain, I was assigned to Shore Patrol. I didn't consider it "lucky". When the base and town bars/clubs closed down there countless drunk sailors and Marines we had to wrestle down to handcuff. I remember one huge Marine that took 5 of us to bring down and cuff and then needed leg restraints.
Then there was all PT, PR-24 (baton) training. I thought I was going to easy duty. Had to go to sickbay twice with cuts, busted lip, swollen eye. Lucky? It was like a cage fight every Friday and Saturday night. As soon as a position opened for Military Customs, I volunteered, and easy peasy for the duration of my shore tour.
However, I'm very proud of the under-cover work I did for NIS (now NCIS) in busting up a heroin ring in Gibraltar. Yes, I volunteered for that after being asked directly from the Security Dept. Commander. It was interesting, exciting, and rewarding to keep those deadly drugs from our weak dumb asses. If you want to know how the operation went down, just ask. Although it was clandestine, it's not classified.
Natick Army Soldier Systems Command is responsible for army uniform design and procurement. They are made up of career government civilian workers under some uniformed active duty army officers.
The systems works as follows: the army operational forces send in a requirement for new uniform articles and the US Army Maneuver Center of Excellence further refines it and if it's for uniform needs it goes to Natick for development.
Natick sends out the requirements to industry and then receives White Papers (proposals) back. The best are requested to provide prototypes (or some are also done in-house at Natick) and then they are tested against the requirements. The best candidates will win the contracts.
In the case of the ACU uniform, the civilians at Natick were the ones that picked the weird grey camouflage. I talked to the Program Manager about it at the time, but he was adamant.
The flaw in the system is that the requirement/acquisition chain is run by government civilians, most of whom have never worn a uniform, much less lived in the grime and dodged enemy fire. Real-world experience would help.
As far as "lining pockets" goes, it's pretty unlikely, given the many checks in the systems and fairly energetic Inspectors General.
The requirements/military specifications ("Milspecs") are complex and rigorous and evolve with the lessons learned.
Expect that they will change, taxpayer. Never attribute to avarice that which is more likely inexperience.
To be fair, under light amp night vision, what we would normally see as a black shadow or shade appears as gray (or gray/green). Black patches on a uniform actually do often stand out.
Since 99+% of the time the uniform and its wearers would be seen in daylight and moonlight, the camouflage should be oriented to what human eyes see.
Thing is, the US military increasingly works at night due to advances in night-fighting technology. Unfortunately, our enemies know about this too and non-US nightvision tech has caught up if not surpassed US issue NVGs in many cases (see the latest in digital NVGs.) You have but to watch footage out of Syria to see Russians using their NVGs and seeing that they’re for all practical purposes just as good as ours. And they will sell their top stuff to the world market unlike us.
However, there is no reason a camo pattern can’t serve both day and night service needs. Several other countries and companies have produced patterns that work just fine for both. They don’t incorporate much if any black, though. Darker grays and such, yes, but not actual black.
Then we have thermal sights to deal with..
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