Posted on 08/14/2017 8:12:02 PM PDT by TigerClaws
1. On the expansion of slavery:
Lincoln said:
There is a natural disgust in the minds of nearly all white people to the idea of indiscriminate amalgamation of the white and black races ... A separation of the races is the only perfect preventive of amalgamation, but as an immediate separation is impossible, the next best thing is to keep them apart where they are not already together. If white and black people never get together in Kansas, they will never mix blood in Kansas ...
2. On shipping blacks back to Africa:
Lincoln said:
In the language of Mr. Jefferson, uttered many years ago, "It is still in our power to direct the process of emancipation, and deportation, peaceably, and in such slow degrees, as that the evil will wear off insensibly; and in their places be, pari passu [on an equal basis], filled up by free white laborers."
3. On outlawing slavery in the south (before the rebellion).
Lincoln said:
I have no purpose directly or indirectly to interfere with the institution of slavery in the states where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.
4. On equality:
Lincoln said:
I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and black races. There is physical difference between the two which, in my judgment, will probably forever forbid their living together upon the footing of perfect equality, and inasmuch as it becomes a necessity that there must be a difference, I, as well as Judge Douglas, am in favor of the race to which I belong having the superior position.
5. On inter-racial marriage:
Lincoln said:
Our republican system was meant for a homogeneous people. As long as blacks continue to live with the whites they constitute a threat to the national life. Family life may also collapse and the increase of mixed breed bastards may some day challenge the supremacy of the white man.
Confederate Gen Howell recalls the 1860s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHDfC-z9YaE
We best learn from those who were there.
For later
The author is not familiar with US history. Read about the Crittendon compromise and the secession period.
What are You babbling about? Put down the pipe.
To be consistent, the current leftists/authoritarians/facists will have to call for the removal of all statues, busts, portraits, and other public representations of Dishonest Abe.
No, just send them to me. I'll burn them for you. I promise.
The Corwin Amendment was never ratified so it isn't the law of anything.
They didn't vote on it because they had already seceded and adopted a constitution that protected slavery to an extent never proposed by the Corwin Amendment. Returning would have been a step backwards for them from the slavery standpoint.
And today, even on this board there is talk of taking up arms against each other. That is precisely what the left wants. Their bloodthirsty souls can’t wait for you to try.
Between the military weapons inherited by tour local swat,team, NOAA and the IRS have full auto weapons..
People can’t see the set up here.. full leninism. Btw. Thanks for posting these temarks.. are they in context?
From a speech Lincoln gave in response to the Dred Scott Supreme Court decision. Look at it in full:
"There is a natural disgust in the minds of nearly all white people, to the idea of an indiscriminate amalgamation of the white and black races; and Judge Douglas evidently is basing his chief hope, upon the chances of being able to appropriate the benefit of this disgust to himself. If he can, by much drumming and repeating, fasten the odium of that idea upon his adversaries, he thinks he can struggle through the storm. He therefore clings to this hope, as a drowning man to the last plank. He makes an occasion for lugging it in from the opposition to the Dred Scott decision. He finds the Republicans insisting that the Declaration of Independence includes ALL men, black as well as white; and forth-with he boldly denies that it includes negroes at all, and proceeds to argue gravely that all who contend it does, do so only because they want to vote, and eat, and sleep, and marry with negroes! He will have it that they cannot be consistent else. Now I protest against that counterfeit logic which concludes that, because I do not want a black woman for a slave I must necessarily want her for a wife. I need not have her for either, I can just leave her alone. In some respects she certainly is not my equal; but in her natural right to eat the bread she earns with her own hands without asking leave of any one else, she is my equal, and the equal of all others."
Looses some of the racist overtones when taken in context, wouldn't you agree?
A separation of the races is the only perfect preventive of amalgamation, but as an immediate separation is impossible, the next best thing is to keep them apart where they are not already together. If white and black people never get together in Kansas, they will never mix blood in Kansas ...
This was from the same speech. Again in full:
"But Judge Douglas is especially horrified at the thought of the mixing blood by the white and black races: agreed for once-a thousand times agreed. There are white men enough to marry all the white women, and black men enough to marry all the black women; and so let them be married. On this point we fully agree with the Judge; and when he shall show that his policy is better adapted to prevent amalgamation than ours we shall drop ours, and adopt his. Let us see. In 1850 there were in the United States, 405,751, mulattoes. Very few of these are the offspring of whites and free blacks; nearly all have sprung from black slaves and white masters. A separation of the races is the only perfect preventive of amalgamation but as an immediate separation is impossible the next best thing is to keep them apart where they are not already together. If white and black people never get together in Kansas, they will never mix blood in Kansas. That is at least one self-evident truth. A few free colored persons may get into the free States, in any event; but their number is too insignificant to amount to much in the way of mixing blood. In 1850 there were in the free states, 56,649 mulattoes; but for the most part they were not born there-they came from the slave States, ready made up. In the same year the slave States had 348,874 mulattoes all of home production. The proportion of free mulattoes to free blacks-the only colored classes in the free states-is much greater in the slave than in the free states. It is worthy of note too, that among the free states those which make the colored man the nearest to equal the white, have, proportionably the fewest mulattoes the least of amalgamation. In New Hampshire, the State which goes farthest towards equality between the races, there are just 184 Mulattoes while there are in Virginia-how many do you think? 79,775, being 23,126 more than in all the free States together. These statistics show that slavery is the greatest source of amalgamation; and next to it, not the elevation, but the degeneration of the free blacks. Yet Judge Douglas dreads the slightest restraints on the spread of slavery, and the slightest human recognition of the negro, as tending horribly to amalgamation."
As you can see, Lincoln was responding to Douglas' fear-mongering about the amalgamation of the races. And while the quote also shows that in many respects Lincoln's views were those of a man of his time, his purpose with the quote is quite different from what you imply. He was allaying fears of amalgamation, not preaching against it.
Cool. Now I like Lincoln even more! Thanks
From Lincoln's Cooper Union address. The quote in context:
"Much is said by Southern people about the affection of slaves for their masters and mistresses; and a part of it, at least, is true. A plot for an uprising could scarcely be devised and communicated to twenty individuals before some one of them, to save the life of a favorite master or mistress, would divulge it. This is the rule; and the slave revolution in Hayti was not an exception to it, but a case occurring under peculiar circumstances. The gunpowder plot of British history, though not connected with slaves, was more in point. In that case, only about twenty were admitted to the secret; and yet one of them, in his anxiety to save a friend, betrayed the plot to that friend, and, by consequence, averted the calamity. Occasional poisonings from the kitchen, and open or stealthy assassinations in the field, and local revolts extending to a score or so, will continue to occur as the natural results of slavery; but no general insurrection of slaves, as I think, can happen in this country for a long time. Whoever much fears, or much hopes for such an event, will be alike disappointed.
In the language of Mr. Jefferson, uttered many years ago, "It is still in our power to direct the process of emancipation, and deportation, peaceably, and in such slow degrees, as that the evil will wear off insensibly; and their places be, pari passu, filled up by free white laborers. If, on the contrary, it is left to force itself on, human nature must shudder at the prospect held up."
Mr. Jefferson did not mean to say, nor do I, that the power of emancipation is in the Federal Government. He spoke of Virginia; and, as to the power of emancipation, I speak of the slaveholding States only. The Federal Government, however, as we insist, has the power of restraining the extension of the institution - the power to insure that a slave insurrection shall never occur on any American soil which is now free from slavery.
Lincoln was quoting Jefferson. Nowhere in the speech, either before the quote or after, does Lincoln advocate shipping blacks to Africa.
From Lincoln's First Inaugural Address. So how does a simple statement of fact denote racism in Lincoln?
From the fourth Lincoln-Douglas debate. The quote in context:
"While I was at the hotel to—day, an elderly gentleman called upon me to know whether I was really in favor of producing a perfect equality between the negroes and white people. [Great Laughter.] While I had not proposed to myself on this occasion to say much on that subject, yet as the question was asked me I thought I would occupy perhaps five minutes in saying something in regard to it. I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, [applause]—that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied every thing. I do not understand that because I do not want a negro woman for a slave I must necessarily want her for a wife. [Cheers and laughter.] My understanding is that I can just let her alone. I am now in my fiftieth year, and I certainly never have had a black woman for either a slave or a wife. So it seems to me quite possible for us to get along without making either slaves or wives of negroes. I will add to this that I have never seen, to my knowledge, a man, woman or child who was in favor of producing a perfect equality, social and political, between negroes and white men. I recollect of but one distinguished instance that I ever heard of so frequently as to be entirely satisfied of its correctness—and that is the case of Judge Douglas’s old friend Col. Richard M. Johnson. [Laughter.] I will also add to the remarks I have made (for I am not going to enter at large upon this subject), that I have never had the least apprehension that I or my friends would marry negroes if there was no law to keep them from it, [laughter] but as Judge Douglas and his friends seem to be in great apprehension that they might, if there were no law to keep them from it, [roars of laughter] I give him the most solemn pledge that I will to the very last stand by the law of this State, which forbids the marrying of white people with negroes. [Continued laughter and applause.] I will add one further word, which is this: that I do not understand that there is any place where an alteration of the social and political relations of the negro and the white man can be made except in the State Legislature—not in the Congress of the United States—and as I do not really apprehend the approach of any such thing myself, and as Judge Douglas seems to be in constant horror that some such danger is rapidly approaching, I propose as the best means to prevent it that the Judge be kept at home and placed in the State Legislature to fight the measure. [Uproarious laughter and applause.] I do not propose dwelling longer at this time on this subject."
As you can see Lincoln was mocking Douglas and making fun of his fears of amalgamation and certainly not promoting them. Douglas raised the issue of racial equality and amalgamation during all the seven debates, forcing Lincoln time and again to show he was not the wild-eyed radical that Douglas wanted to portray him as. Here is a quote from the first debate which I believe explains Lincoln's beliefs more clearly:
" I will say here, while upon this subject, that I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so. I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and the black races. There is a physical difference between the two, which, in my judgment, will probably forever forbid their living together upon the footing of perfect equality, and inasmuch as it becomes a necessity that there must be a difference, I, as well as Judge Douglas, am in favor of the race to which I belong having the superior position. I have never said anything to the contrary, but I hold that, notwithstanding all this, there is no reason in the world why the negro is not entitled to all the natural rights enumerated in the Declaration of Independence, the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. [Loud cheers.] I hold that he is as much entitled to these as the white man. I agree with Judge Douglas he is not my equal in many respects-certainly not in color, perhaps not in moral or intellectual endowment. But in the right to eat the bread, without the leave of anybody else, which his own hand earns, he is my equal and the equal of Judge Douglas, and the equal of every living man."
What other leader of the period was saying that a black man was his equal in any way, much less in deserving the same rights as a white man?
And those statistics are from where?
After reviewing the pros and cons of Africa as a destination, Lincoln started pushing Central America as his destination of choice. After all, he said, Liberia was far from African Americans’ birthplace in the United States, and even if they weren’t all that fond of white people, he could understand wanting to be close to their forcibly adopted “motherland.”
“It does not strike me that you have the greatest reason to love [white people],” he said, exempting himself. “But still you are attached to them at all events.”
As crazy as it sounds now, Central America fit the bill for Lincoln, because, as he explained, “[i]t is nearer to us than Liberia—not much more than one-fourth as far as Liberia, and within seven days’ run by steamers. Unlike Liberia it is on a great line of travel—it is a highway. The country is a very excellent one for any people, and with great natural resources and advantages, and especially because of the similarity of climate with your native land—thus being suited to your physical condition.”
https://www.theroot.com/did-lincoln-want-to-ship-black-people-back-to-africa-1790858389
My point in this thread is the Left is now judging historical figures based on 21st Century rules.
This will result eventually in attacks on Jefferson, Washington, Lincoln, FDR, etc.
The left wants to push the argument (Overton Window) where the ‘new normal’ is what was an extreme left position 20 years ago.
Confederate statutes were the first salvo. They’ll be coming for more in the future as the Left feeds off of anger and grievances.
Thomas Jefferson is already on the hit list:
http://flathatnews.com/2016/02/25/jefferson-statue-attacked-defended-in-debate-society-event/
Lincoln believed and supported voluntary emigration for freed slaves much of his adult life. A lot of people did - Madison, Monroe, John Breckenridge, Henry Clay. As ad admirer of Clay it's not surprising that Lincoln came to support what he supported. Robert Lee paid passage for some of his former slaves in the 1850's. That is a far cry from the kind of forced deportation that Thomas Jefferson and others advocated. And which you are implying that he favored.
Also, this man lived over 150 years ago, in a significantly less enlightened era.
Apples and oranges.
Holding the same sentiments in the modern day is even more heinous, given the growth of our national character that has occurred since human beings were treated as property through the 1860's in this country.
Lincoln harbored racist ideas which were entirely prevalent at the time. That was then. This is now. learn the difference.
It's important to understand that Abraham Lincoln was a deeply flawed man in many ways. If he held the same beliefs today, he wouldn't be electorally viable.
So I'm not sure what pointing out Lincoln's flaws accomplishes. Everybody with even marginal knowledge of the man and the era knows that he harbored bigotry towards Blacks.
And yet he was also, the Great Emancipator. That goes a long way towards atoning for such prejudice, wouldn't you say?
The fact is, all men—including Black men—are created equal, and endowed by their Creator with Unalienable Rights. The fact that imperfect, slave-owning men such as Thomas Jefferson penned such idealistic words does not dilute their nobility, their wisdom—their near perfection.
I've long held that many of the Founders' lofty words were far more noble and perfect than the sinful, flawed men who wrote and uttered them.
That's why the efforts of "We the People" to "form a more perfect Union" is a work in progress—an ideal to be constantly pursued. The pursuit is almost as important as reaching the ultimate goal.
Republican President Abraham Lincoln—although a flawed man in the pantheon of imperfect men—and the American people, helped America along the path towards forming "a more perfect Union, establishing Justice, ensuring domestic tranquility, and reaching the other ideals enumerated in the Preamble to the US Constitution...
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