Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Firefighters add drones to threats faced in a wildfire
Sierra Vista Herald ^ | Ben Moffat | Cronkite News

Posted on 07/10/2017 6:18:47 AM PDT by SandRat

WASHINGTON – It used to be that firefighters’ biggest worries in a wildfire might be unpredictable winds, rocky terrain and scorching heat.

That was before the advent of affordable, readily available aerial drones.

Firefighters battling the Goodwin Fire in central Arizona had to suspend operations twice in one week after drones flew into airspace over the blaze, incursions that one official called “extremely unusual” but which he fears is the beginning of a “very disturbing trend.”

Drone incursions into airspace that is restricted to helicopters and fixed-wing airplanes, which drop water and fire-retardant chemicals, forces them to be grounded to avoid a drone collision. When that happens, firefighters on the ground are left unprotected and forced to back off.

“We needed our firefighters to be supported with bucket drops and retardant drops,” said Kale Casey, a spokesman for the Type 3 Incident Management Team that is overseeing efforts on the Goodwin blaze. “And all that stops instantly as soon as one person’s drone enters our airspace.”

Firefighters, both on the ground and in the air, risk their lives to do their jobs, he said.

“When we talk about risk, we’re talking about the ultimate risk,” Casey said. “This is a very, very dangerous occupation that we have, and we do everything we can to mitigate the risk.”

The trend isn’t limited to Arizona.

On June 28, two firefighting aircraft in Colorado were grounded after drone sightings close to the Lightner Creek Fire near Durango, according to the Durango Herald. And the New York Times reported that drone sightings in 2015 caused interruptions in at least five California wildfire operations.

The Goodwin fire began June 24 and was reported 95 percent contained as of Friday, after burning more than 28,000 acres.

The Goodwin drone incidents began June 30, when an air-attack pilot supervisor reported a drone “at his altitude” that began to circle the plane, according to a statement from by the Yavapai County Sheriff’s Office. The drone’s presence meant all 14 firefighting aircraft had to be grounded immediately, and the hotshot firefighters on the ground had to pull out.

“They had to back away because they had no assistance from above, and it just makes things very complicated and dangerous,” said Yavapai County Sheriff’s Office spokesman Dwight D’Evelyn.

That same day, sheriff’s deputies arrested Gene Alan Carpenter, 54, in connection with the drone incident. He was charged this week with two counts of felony endangerment and one count of unlawful operation of an unmanned aircraft.

Any hopes that the arrest would deter other drone operators evaporated on July 4, when another drone sighting forced a helicopter to land. No suspect had been identified in that incident as of Friday.

The danger from drones is very real, D’Evelyn said.

“I understand from the folks that handle these firefighting missions that rotor aircraft are really susceptible to being downed by a drone if it gets caught up in the rotor wash and things like that, which can happen very easily,” he said.

Drones are a relatively new threat, brought on by falling prices and increased supply of private drones on the market. And Casey said it only adds to the danger of the job.

“Before drones were a part of the theater of operation, we didn’t have to worry like we do now,” he said. “At any given moment, a civilian could completely disrupt what we have set in place to achieve our goals.”

Casey said there is no surefire way to prevent drones from flying in places they shouldn’t.

“If you think about it, really, anybody anywhere can fly a drone into our airspace,” he said. “We can’t make that not happen. We can’t put up a barrier around a 10-square-mile area, or whatever it is we’ve designated.”

The Federal Aviation Administration typically sets up temporary flight restrictions around wildfires, making the airspace off-limits to all but firefighting aircraft. Federal law also prohibits resisting or interfering with firefighters’ attempts to battle a blaze on public lands.

Carpenter currently faces state charges, but D’Evelyn said the Yavapai County Attorney’s office is consulting with federal officials on whether federal charges can be brought.

But there’s not much else regulators can do.

Commercial drone pilots have to register with the FAA, but a requirement that recreational operators register their drones was thrown out by a federal court in May. The FAA is exploring technology that allow remote identification of drones, and their registered owners, but that technology has yet to be developed.

In the meantime, the FAA said anyone who sees someone flying a drone near a wildfire should immediately report it to local police and the nearest FAA Flight Standards District Office. The agency would not comment on questions related to drone registration and enforcement, but said in a statement that it supports the U.S. Forest Service’s slogan on drone operation: “If you fly, we can’t.”

The Association for Unmanned Vehicle Systems International, a nonprofit that promotes the use of drones worldwide, has been supportive of increased registration and regulation in the past. A spokeswoman declined to comment specifically on the Arizona incidents, but said in a statement that, “Stricter enforcement will not only punish irresponsible operators, it will also serve as a deterrent” to those who would misuse drones.

Casey said the only way to prevent these incidents is to educate the public on the harm they can cause. Drone operators might be tempted to check in on their homes or get photos or videos of firefighting operations, but they have to think of the consequences, he said.

“We’re the ones who are completely vulnerable to that desire, and we need people to realize that they need to not be selfish – they need to not put our pilots at risk,” Casey said.


TOPICS: Local News; Military/Veterans; Society
KEYWORDS: drones; fighters; fire
A sinple, easy answer, that would potentially give the military good training for Unit/Area defense, and rhe return of the Air Defense Roll, RIFLE FIRE, and perhaps Air Defense Artillery. Individual Arms, SemiAutomatic and full automatic,



If it FLIES

IT DIES

1 posted on 07/10/2017 6:18:47 AM PDT by SandRat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: SandRat

I would think a shotgun would take down a drone easy enough.


2 posted on 07/10/2017 6:23:15 AM PDT by ichabod1 (Smoke does not mean fire when someone threw a smoke grenade.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SandRat

It gets even better as the military is now quickly looking for more ways of jamming the drones through software and radio wave contamination. This is something that has borne itself from the situation in Mosul and now Raqqa seeing how ISIS is now weaponizing retail quads and other types of commercially available drones.

Take that same technology to the firefighters and police so it eliminates the possibility of firing rounds into the air, especially in populated areas. They gotta fall somewhere.


3 posted on 07/10/2017 6:26:44 AM PDT by mazda77
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ichabod1
I would think a shotgun would take down a drone easy enough.


4 posted on 07/10/2017 6:29:48 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (Battleships confide in me and tell me where you are...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: ichabod1

Yes but every soldier or Marine has a rifle, and very, very, very few, shot guns are issued.


5 posted on 07/10/2017 6:31:08 AM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: SandRat

Drone Interceptors. Take a drone, add a compact BB gun like those used in R/C naval warfare...


6 posted on 07/10/2017 7:03:08 AM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four Fried Chickens and a Coke)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ichabod1

You’re right but only if the drone was within shotgun range.


7 posted on 07/10/2017 7:28:00 AM PDT by laplata (Liberals/Progressives have diseased minds.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Army Air Corps

Why not something like a scalled done French Mini-Ball?


8 posted on 07/10/2017 7:29:43 AM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: SandRat

Yes if a drone is there, shoot the damn thing down. I’m stunned that we can’t fight fires because some idiot sends a drone up there, and that grounds flight operations.


9 posted on 07/10/2017 7:53:29 AM PDT by Dilbert San Diego
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ichabod1

You are thinking of child’s toys. Drones high enough to threaten a plane are out of shotgun range.


10 posted on 07/10/2017 9:03:58 AM PDT by TalonDJ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Dilbert San Diego

“I’m stunned that we can’t fight fires because some idiot sends a drone up there,”

Come on out and watch air attack operations sometime. It will be pretty clear. Those bombers get very low, ingesting a drone at the wrong time could be extremely dangerous. They aren’t going to risk the lives of the crew.


11 posted on 07/10/2017 9:06:32 AM PDT by TalonDJ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Dilbert San Diego
Like I said, Make the ADA Slogan Live once again.

If IT Flies,

It DIES!

12 posted on 07/10/2017 9:14:08 AM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: TalonDJ

I understand the danger of drones in the flight path. My response is to shoot the damn things down, not have to be unable to fight a fire because some idiot is playing with a drone.


13 posted on 07/10/2017 9:15:50 AM PDT by Dilbert San Diego
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Dilbert San Diego

Too hard. Imagine trying to hit a bird flying hundreds of feet in the air. Shotguns aren’t effective at that range. Oh, AND you are standing on burning prairie grass... or it is over the trees of a forest, that is on fire. What is the alternative? Try to fly within 100 yards of it with a helicopter and then shoot it? While flying through smoke? They are only getting a glimpse of these things while making a drop. They don’t have a clear shot. The easiest thing to do is to check around the perimeter of the fire and find the operator. And even that can be a challenge.

Your talking about hitting a small moving target, with elevation difference, at potentially hundreds of yards away. While trying to avoid getting burned to death.


14 posted on 07/10/2017 9:48:20 AM PDT by TalonDJ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Dilbert San Diego

Oh, for full disclosure just yesterday we dove the parameter of a freshly extinguished (mostly) wildfire, and just last week we sat up on a mountain top and watched the firebombs make their runs. To find, target, and shoot down a drone in all that would be difficult to the point of miraculous.


15 posted on 07/10/2017 9:50:56 AM PDT by TalonDJ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Dilbert San Diego

Oh, for full disclosure just yesterday we dove the parameter of a freshly extinguished (mostly) wildfire, and just last week we sat up on a mountain top and watched the firebombs make their runs. To find, target, and shoot down a drone in all that would be difficult to the point of miraculous.


16 posted on 07/10/2017 9:52:33 AM PDT by TalonDJ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: SandRat

All of this outrage over drones seems to me like fake news that has the intent to gin up support for either an outright ban of civilian owned drones or else for a government registry of drones.

Sort of reminds me of how some people want to ban guns or else excessively restrict them.

Meanwhile, in the real world firefighters are starting to use drones to fight fires and save lives:

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=fire+department+use+of+drones&spf=1499716844975


17 posted on 07/10/2017 1:01:47 PM PDT by MeganC (Democrat by birth, Republican by default, conservative by principle.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MeganC

Interesting reading.


18 posted on 07/10/2017 2:02:40 PM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson