Posted on 06/26/2017 5:42:47 PM PDT by Uncle Sam 911
On June 21, 1989, a deeply divided United States Supreme Court upheld the rights of protesters to burn the American flag in a landmark First Amendment decision.
In the controversial Texas v. Johnson case, the Court voted 5-4 in favor of Gregory Lee Johnson, the protester. Johnson’s actions, the majority argued, were symbolic speech political in nature and could be expressed even at the affront of those who disagreed with him.
Justice William Brennan wrote the majority decision, with Justices Anthony Kennedy, Thurgood Marshall, Harry Blackmun and Antonin Scalia concurring. “Johnson was convicted for engaging in expressive conduct. The State's interest in preventing breaches of the peace does not support his conviction because Johnson's conduct did not threaten to disturb the peace,” said Brennan. “Nor does the State's interest in preserving the flag as a symbol of nationhood and national unity justify his criminal conviction for engaging in political expression.”
(Excerpt) Read more at constitutioncenter.org ...
I engage in honest commerce to produce wealth.
I use that wealth to purchase a gun, thus title conveys to me of that gun.
What I do with that gun, so long as I don't bring physical harm to another human with said activity (prescinding from self-defense), is nobody's business.
I think most on FR would agree with what I just wrote.
Thus, I am at a loss as to why knickers get in a twist if I replace "gun" with "flag" in the previous sentences. I'd like to think the Founders, if they didn't want desecration, would have put that kind of protection into the Constitution. If not, then see the 9th and 10th.
If you want to argue that the government's halting of my right to burn a flag is akin to a "taking" under the 4th Amendment, then that's a pretty novel reading of that Amendment. Indeed, that "takings" path would basically convert the 4th Amendment into a cool means for enacting the collectivization of pretty much any piece of property by the next statist inhabitant of the WH. That would be as slimy an abuse of the Constitution as would be the raping of the Commerce Clause.
A wise writer once said "yelling 'fire' in a theater is about property rights, not speech.' " I think he's correct, and flag burning when considered in the same manner becomes pretty simple to comprehend.
THAT SAID, people filmed burning a flag can be publicly shamed and, if so desired, fired by their employer etc. With rights come responsibilities.
Obviously you’ve not followed the protests in CA on this issue. Do some research since it appears you have a computer to do so.
PS: To help you out, it’s called “destruction of private property”
Or if someone wanted to bring a bit of fisticuffs against the burner, they should be advised to demand a jury trial if arrested and prosecuted.
No one would be convicted..
So freedom of speech quits being the protected right to express oneself and becomes beatings short of what Antifa, brown shirts, black panthers or whatever other thugs decide will be allowed.
A Free Republic, indeed.
Thanks for the brilliant post.
Johnson “is vile” is a perfect description of this flag-burner but there’s more to this story.
Johnson still is and was a member of the maoist Revolutionary Communist Party (RCP) led by cult-figure Robert Avakian. Both are psychopaths of the first order, Maoist and Khmer Rouge Maoists all wrapped up to tightly in the head.
Johnson deliberately staged the flag burning in Texas in hopes of getting a major court decision as well as attention for the RCP.
There was a predecessor case against Johnson involving a friend of mine, which led to the state’s case.
Scalia made the right decision about Free Speech. Otherwise I would have been arrested for burning a Red Chinese flag in front of the State Department around 1971 or so in protest of Nixon’s recognition of Red China.
Somewhere back in an old CBS film from 1969 you can see me and a friend burning a Viet Cong flag (we made our own for the demonstration) in front of comrade Dr. Benjamin Spock, about Nov. 15, 1969. Boy did that spoil his speech. You could hear us shouting that “The VC is a Hanoi front” etc.
Gee I miss the old days when we really screwed up communist rallies.
Hell’s bells. Here’s a story to make your heart beat faster.
Somewhere the early 2000’s, Code Pink/Medea Benjamin (and Jane Fonda) had protests over Iraq or whatever, in D.C. I made a big sign saying something pithy about CP and joined their march, only I stayed about 10 feet behind Benjamin and her “Motley Crew” of losers.
My sign most have said “I’m not with these communist traitors” or something in that vein. I marched for blocks holding it high above them and they never saw it, while people on the sidewalks applauded me (the Code Pinkos thought it was for them. My bad).
People took a lot of photos of that sign that day and sent them around the country (as some told me).
It is not hard to make the commies and their dupes look like fools, and it sure is fun.
As far as I am concerned, anyone caught burning our American Flag should be the recipient of a .338 Lapua for an eternal dirt nap.
Johnson (Joey) used to sell the RCP rag on my college campus (1980’s) and I would walk by him every other day or so and say “Hey Joey, why don’t you commies take a bath?” or “Hey Joey, you are in the United States, not the USSR, you don’t have to stand in line for toilet paper here!”
Joey would almost always come over and talk and go into a rant about Mao, the Shining Path, Pol Pot or the USSR. He was serious and a total ass.
One day I saw Joey and he looked like a jigsaw puzzle with a couple pieces gone. Joey told me that he was selling his newspaper at a hardcore show and some of the punks did not like his politics.
Whenever I would walk away from him, I would say, “Joey, if you go around talking of chairman Mao, You ain’t going to make it with anyone anyhow.”
As for his Supreme Court Case, to Joey it was all about Joey and nothing to do with the First Amendment.
He is a real turd.
When I teach, I have a First Amendment lecture and talk about Joey and what an ass he is.
I close with “And that’s the great thing about the First Amendment and extension, the Constitution, it protects everyone, even the most disgusting people.”
“As far as I am concerned, anyone caught burning our American Flag should be the recipient of a .338 Lapua for an eternal dirt nap.”
That would depend on how you define “our.” If you own an American flag and someone burns your flag, you have a wide variety of remedies.
If some idiot burns his own flag, your remedies are rather limited.
Perhaps, but let me go burn a fag flag on the capitol steps and see who goes to jail!
A lot of these answers disappoint me. Too many men and women have died for that flag to allow it to be desecrated and destroyed in a cheap political statement. I’ve walked in too many American military cemeteries both here and in Europe to think the flag is not protected. I guess we will have to disagree on this issue. Scalia was wrong once. It was this case.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.