Posted on 05/19/2017 7:59:58 PM PDT by BJ1
I often encounter “pro-marriage” people while gathering stories for the blog. These pro-marriage people come in two varieties.
On the one end of the spectrum are people like Terrell Clemmons and Jennifer Roback Morse, who understand marriage, but who also understand the social changes that have made marriage unattractive for men. Both Clemmons and Morse have a background in STEM fields, so they are able to understand incentives and tradeoffs. They understand that society has to rollback the changes to education, divorce laws, etc. if they expect men to be interested in marriage again. They understand that men are not just accessories of women, but instead have their own desires, feelings and reasons for marrying.
On the other end of the spectrum are feminist men, who are not able to understand the changing incentives that face men in a world that has evolved under the influence of radical feminism. It is just simpler (less thinking) for these men to accept the radical feminism as a given, and then urge men to “man up”. I think a much better idea would be for the “man up” crowd to realize how marriage has changed, and how the schools and the workplace have changed, then make all of these things more attractive to men. It doesn’t do any good to try to “dare” men into jumping off a cliff. Men aren’t stupid, and they do what is in their own best interests. If the man-up crowd wants younger men to marry, then they need to change the incentives offered to men. And that means changing women first.
(Excerpt) Read more at winteryknight.com ...
No, I get it 100% and am ALWAYS on the side of these good men. Sadly, I am also in that position from the other side, not having the kids taken away but having to raise them alone. My heart breaks for you. But it breaks for me too. I do ridiculous gymnastic backbends to be good, fair, loving. But I got as screwed as you. Marriage sucks.
There are American ladies worth dating. They do not sleep around and are conservative and godly.
I know American men who are worth dating. They don’t sleep around and they are conservative and godly.
What do you call yourself?
I think that means...
Women want men to want them, but not require anything of them. Once a man requires something from her, she doesnt want him.
And this may be the root of the problem. Created by feminism and selfishness.
“Because women have opted out of being women.”
Yes. They’re females but not women.
>>>The hate and insults on all American ladies due to individual experiences in some of these posts are unjust enough to run some folks off. Please be aware there are a great deal of very good women - even good single ladies, in America and especially on FR. I know it is hard for men and women both to meet good people. <<<
Of course there are good women. It’s the good marriages that we all see that make us get married in the first place. Unfortunately that good marriage is a small fraction of the whole. Conventional wisdom is a 50% chance of divorce. Of the marriages that last many men are trapped in a bad marriage that is best described as “cheaper to keep her”. And somewhere between 10% to 20% of marriages will end up being sexless. So I’m pessimistic about the odds of a man finding a “good woman.”
You want to say there are good women. That’s not the issue. The issue is that such a large number of women change into something radically different. Listen to unhappily married or divorced men and that is pretty common. She was one way when we married, then she changed into (something he didn’t like at all). Simultaneously he is expected to keep working, being loving, being a good father and sharing the household chores. Gosh, the responsibilities stayed the same and his wife has become one of the “bad ones.”
The real problem comes into play once the marriage has hit a rough patch. Most men are going to tolerate it. They are not going to have affairs and then leave the wife. 70% of divorces are initiated by women. Family courts reward a woman for divorcing for any reason. Half the assets, a chunk of the man’s pension, child support up until they graduate college and possibly spousal support. Thus the unhappy woman knows she can exit with cash and asset: Even if she cheated and caused the divorce. An unhappy man knows there is a price to be paid to do the same. Thus the man is penalized for being a dog or penalized if his wife was acting badly. It’s a lose lose situation for the man.
My opinion is the good women, who are not going to turn on you and be affected by the feminism in the culture, are increasingly hard to find as they get married off. As they are good wives, they don’t get divorced much. If a man doesn’t snag one of these women up young, his odds of a good marriage is pretty low. That is not treating women unjustly. That is men being logical. Your instinct might be to say not all women are like that. Well 50 shades of grey says that there are too many women out there who are steeped in our culture and are damaged goods as a result of it.
And from Britain, half the women report having a back up husband: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/02/backup-husband_n_5923700.html
I’m sure that dynamic is here too in America.
You can be upset about men looking at the world and saying “women are just too risky.” It’s your life. But don’t expect men to believe that opinion is wrong.
>>>There are American ladies worth dating. They do not sleep around and are conservative and godly.
I know American men who are worth dating. They don’t sleep around and they are conservative and godly.
What do you call yourself?>>>
I went abroad and found a virgin bride who was in her thirties. She has all the qualities I was looking for. I made zero compromises in what I was looking for. So I call myself fortunate.
Have you ever perused dating sites, even the Christian ones? Here was my experience on one such site. Typical woman in her mid to late thirties: High demands. Inflated sense of self worth. Has baby rabies.
Women’s youth and beauty fades. That’s the draw for men. Yet their demands are still sky high? LOL.
I’m sorry your marriage failed. But at least you have the benefit of the law giving you child support.
Are you open to getting married again or has your bad experience turned you against it?
Obama Day...every April First.
I’m not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Can you explain your comment to me?
I met the first two of the top three and talked many times with the third. I married the top ranked one, though.
We had kept ourselves for each other, too. We are both Christians and are completely happy.
Congratulations to you. Sounds like a good dating site to recommend. Which one was it?
It, sadly, no longer exists. It was called “True.com,” for “True Beginnings.” The personality test was far more extensive than what I took for eHarmony. The site had contracted with the magazine “Psychology Today” to create it. It analyzed 34 aspects of personality and then let you find those you would be most compatible with. Unfortunately, the test took over an hour and was optional, so I really don’t know how many took it.
The site did a felony background check and also checked your marital status to assure you were not looking for an affair partner.
The other two women I met were really decent American women, but I went with the top one.
I don’t think I would get married again. I did it all wrong the first time - married too young, too soon, to someone in a different country. All the mistakes. When we divorced I gave him everything he wanted. I would never have come after him legally for one penny even though we had a baby. Whom he didn’t want custody of. The only condition I said about that was that I would be honest with our child if he asked if his father ever paid child support. So he paid of his own volition for 21 years, his own choice.
The second time I tried to do it all right but still it didn’t work. And even not working I stayed forever.
Either I am not good at it or I am unlucky at it. On paper it looks like I’d be a great partner. Oh well. And with small kids, I don’t want them to endure a stepfather or worse. So, no, I doubt I would marry again.
Woman is God’s gift to man, and vice versa.
A good marriage is the ultimate blessing.
I wish everyone could experience this joy.
Sorry to post so much later than your reply. Family member had a medical semi-emergency. Out of the woods now.
Anyways-—
I read the 50% divorce rate is a statistical myth based on the number of marriages per year being compared to the number of divorces. That it doesn’t take into account the real number of couples who actually stay married throughout their lives compared to the number of couples who divorce in their marriages. And being a ‘hopeful romantic’, I want to believe mature adults who once loved each other can respect each other enough to try their best to work things out. I think the biggest problem is expectations. And not realizing that ‘chemistry’ is more anxiousness or some type of fear. Or just pure sexual attraction based on temporary conditions. Honesty and non-rollercoaster highs and lows to some may sound boring. But I would think it would be extremely attractive to both parties. I also believe our wonderful pc culture is doing everything it can to bust up couples. Seeing past that together is one of the biggest battles. But maybe I am looking at things with rose colored glasses. Hey, I did say I am a hopeless/hopefull romantic.
When you just shack up and turn that into marriage it doesn’t help being a blessing. Doinh things out of order is no good. Speaking from experience.
Women who reject marriage do so because they can have family and money without it.
Men who reject marriage do so because it means that their family and money can be taken away from them.
In what ways is status conferred?
No, men have often rejected marriage because they were immature and/or wanted to sleep around.
The Madonnas of the world, IMO, don't seem to do anything gracefully.
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