“...I do know that the original 30-06 was loaded with 220 grain bullet...
...The trouble with the .308 is the smaller powder space is made even smaller with that weight bullet....”
The .30-03 had the 220-gr bullet. The .30-06 first used in the 1903 Springfield used a 150-gr projectile.
Powder space is relative to shank seating depth. You can seat the bullet to any depth you want, you just need a chamber with a long enough of a throat to accommodate the resulting COAL. All it takes is one phone call to Pacific Tool and Gauge and they’ll make you a custom reamer to cut a chamber with whatever throat length you tell them.
All the .264 cartridges they’re talking about were first developed as sporting rounds, and sporting development on them, especially the Creedmore and the Grendel, is ongoing. It’s simply not logical to compare them to a MilSpec cartridge that’s been essentially static for half a century. If you want a relevant comparison, you’ve got to allow the chamber specs to be updated to something more current than 7.62 NATO.
There’s a 1-mile target range about an hour’s drive from my house. I guarantee you no one is finding the target on that range with anything smaller than a .375 (elev. 1200’ msl). A .338 AI won’t get there, much less a .338 Lapua. And they’re loading Ay-Cho-Tee HOT, burning barrels out in less than a thousand rounds.
I know SOCOM isn’t expecting 1-mile sea level shots with whatever rifle they select, but my point is that long range shooting has one thing in common with drag racing: there is no replacement for displacement. The current world-record sniper shot wasn’t made with a .308 or a .264, it was made with a .50 BMG. The simple fact is, when it comes to bullet mass, less is less and more is more, and you can’t do more with less. Sir Isaac wouldn’t allow it. Anybody tells you different is peddling snake oil.
Regarding your argument-
a 30 cal 225 grn Hornady ELD M, .690 BC, MV 2950 retain 1244 fps (Sound is 1151 fps at STC) at 1760 yds with 774 ft/lbs of KE, from a 200 yd zero, it requires 56 MOS of elevation.
a 147 grin 6.5 mm Hornady EL .690 BC, MV 2950 retains 1244fps, and 505 ft/lbs....
So you get very similar performance with about half the materials cost per shot and ~60% of the energy of the big 30 mag.
I can find no data that shows a 30/225 grain from a 308 ( at SAAMI pressures, not lower NATO) that gets anywhere near 2400 fps..... so that would show 902 fps at 1760 yds, for 407 ft/lbs of energy and a drop of 96 MOA from a 200 yd zero. This round on paper would not approximate reality- by this point this bullet- even in a 1/8 twist 30 inch bbl would likely have fallen to the ground as yaw pushed the bullet over and it tumbled to the ground around the transonic range, about 1400 yds... The 175 or 190 308 is the epitome of the 308 winc/762 nato- it don’t get better any heavier.... and is really a 1000,maybe 1100 yd max effective range cartridge.
Very well said. (I'm jealous, I didn't think of that.)
As a former handloader for the following caliber's 25/06, 30/06, and my favorite .35 Whelen. Why these; they all use the same brass. Either neck them up from 30/06 to 35 Whelen, or neck them down from 30/06 to 25/06. Kept cost down.:-)
...The trouble with the .308 is the smaller powder space is made even smaller with that weight bullet....”
Ah, not trying to be a smart a$$, but they do make different powder(s.) For those who may not know/ understand this statement, think as grinding (gun powder) to different "grit size." Actually the different grit size is partially because of the different formula to make either a "slow burning powder," or a "fast burning power." Most people try to use a powder that will take up as much space in the cartridge as possible. Think of this as a "general rule," not etched in concrete.
You are being too rational. Ever since the King of Sweden decided that 6.5 had magical qualities it has been so...
Honestly. I have long wondered if there is not some “quantum level” effect in regard to the size of air molecules that gives the 6.5/.270 some poorly understood near mystical property. Maybe. Or maybe it is just a matter of balancing recoil and terminal ballistics...
The gunsmith that made my custom Garrand made a wildcat cartridge that fired a 55 gr .223 from a 30-06 case at some 6,000 fps “for long range shooting”. Somehow I bet that would reach out just as well as a .50 BMG and be a little easier to shoot. Downside? He said he only got about 500 rounds per barrel.