Posted on 03/26/2017 8:29:32 AM PDT by dayglored
Updated Three people in Illinois have filed a lawsuit against Microsoft, claiming that its Windows 10 update destroyed their data and damaged their computers.
The complaint [PDF], filed in Chicago's US District Court on Thursday, charges that Microsoft Windows 10 is a defective product and that its maker failed to provide adequate warning about the potential risks posed by Windows 10 installation – specifically system stability and data loss.
Microsoft "failed to exercise reasonable care in designing, formulating, and manufacturing the Windows 10 upgrade and placing it into the stream of commerce," the complaint claims. "As a result of its failure to exercise reasonable care, [the company] distributed an operating system that was liable to cause loss of data or damage to hardware."
The attorneys representing the trio are seeking to have the case certified as a class action that includes every person in the US who upgraded to Windows 10 from Windows 7 and suffered data loss or damage to software or hardware within 30 days of installation. They claim there are hundreds or thousands of affected individuals.
The complaint enumerates a number of alleged problems with the way the Windows 10 update presents itself to Windows users, noting that it "often installs itself without any action being taken by the consumer."
Microsoft recently changed its Windows update behavior to allow for more user input. "Prior to the Creators Update, Windows 10 made most of the decisions for you regarding when updates would be installed, and didn't provide ways to tailor the timing to your specific needs," wrote John Cable, director of program management in the Windows servicing and delivery team in a blog post earlier this month.
"What we heard back most explicitly was that you want more control over when Windows 10 installs updates."
According to the complaint, Windows 10 installed itself onto plaintiff Stephanie Watson's computer without her consent and then erased data, some of it related to her work. She hired Geek Squad to repair the machine, with only partial success, and ended up having to purchase a new computer.
Plaintiff Robert Saiger, the complaint says, consented to the Windows 10 update, only to have his computer stop functioning. He lost data, then lost time and money, while incurring aggravation attempting to recover the data.
Plaintiff Howard Goldberg "elected to accept Windows 10 after declining over 6 months of daily prompts requesting him to download it." After three attempts to do so, the result was a non-functional computer and lost data.
Last June, a California woman won $10,000 after a Windows 10 update disabled her PC. In September, UK-based consumer group Which? noted that Windows 10 updates were being deployed without consent, despite Microsoft's insistence that users have a say in the matter.
Microsoft was unable to comment at time of publication. ®
Microsoft doesn't think much of the lawsuit. "The Windows 10 free upgrade program was a choice designed to help people take advantage of the most secure, and most productive Windows," a Microsoft spokesperson said in an email to The Register. "Customers had the option not to upgrade to Windows 10. If a customer who upgraded during the one year program needed help with the upgrade experience, we had numerous options including free customer support and 31-days to roll back to their old operating system. We believe the plaintiffs’ claims are without merit."
One of the other issues buried in the fine print was no matter what version you had, you were upgraded to the lowest level consumer version.
Windows 10 totally killed hubby’s computer.
Most stable computer in my house has Linux Mint cinammon 17.2 on it.
My linux computer runs on a single 64bit cpu. It is faster than any windoze box I have with dual or quad cpu’s.
And this version of mint is supported until 2019. I hate MS.
Don't get too disturbed -- Microsoft's bullshiite bothers me alright, and it has since I started using their products in 1976 (8K BASIC). I have 40 years of experience dealing with their business tactics and abusive behavior.
But these days, most people have a choice, at least for what they use at home (the boss can dictate otherwise, but only at work). For example, I run a Linux workstation at work, and MacOS at home -- both having multiple Windows VMs (7 and 10). If one of the VMs gets corrupted by a rogue app or a rogue Windows Update, I trash that VM folder and restore from a recent backup or reference copy.
People have four choices as I see it:
If someone buys a new car, drives off the lot and keeps driving until it runs out of gas, and then whines that no one told them they needed to refill it periodically, do they get my sympathy? I know people who've done that with engine oil. It's an expensive lesson.
Computers are just tools. Find the right tool, learn what's required to use it safely, and keep it in good shape.
I hate what MS did, and continues to do, pushing Win10 on people. I see some of that firsthand. But really, is anyone surprised? Really? People should know better by now.
BTW I don't hate Microsoft. They're just another company with some business tactics I don't like, but I don't hate them. Hating companies is stupid.
What I dislike -- a LOT -- has to do with the effects of their actions on people, in particular the people I'm responsible for keeping productive in my business environment (I'm a Sysadmin you recall). It's all part of the job, but it's not a part I enjoy.
"Microsoft doesn't think much of the lawsuit. "The Windows 10 free upgrade program was a choice designed to help people take advantage of the most secure, and most productive Windows," a Microsoft spokesperson said in an email to The Register." so when people clicked the RED X saying they DO NOT WANT Win10, and it installed it ANYWAY, that was their choice, right???
good luck with THAT in court...
Some of my clients had the same happen to them. Huge problem when some of their expensive CAD software isn't compatible with Win 10. They purposely hadn't updated because they knew their old software wasn't compatible and didn't want to pay lots of $$$ to update to a newer version.
What an arrogant snob you are!!!
Wow, regards to you too. :-)
What brought that on? That I would hope people show the same respect for one sophisticated tool (their computer) that they do for another sophisticated tool (e.g. their car)?
Or my comments about Microsoft and their business practices?
I don't appreciate your ad hominem slur, but I am curious what set you off.
Wow, regards to you too. :-)
**************
Computers are sold and marketed as consumer appliances ,, this isn’t 1963 anymore...no pocket protectors , no advanced degrees... typical user is in middle school and cares only about games... I used to be a storage admin but I don’t have a test lab set up to mirror and test every potentially unwanted update or even enough disk space to test restore backups and such...
MS has been on my sh*t list since they stole DR-Dos’s defrag uty and put them out of business... I run W7pro and have had to turn off all updates because my video isn’t W10 compliant and the damn thing STILL wanted to install on my box...
I think it has to do with all those hidden partitions Windows likes to have. They just need to be so..so.
I'll agree with you for tablets (iPad, etc.) and smartphones, game consoles, and newfangled "smart" appliances like Amazon's Echo.
With regard to "real" computers -- laptops and desktops -- I have to disagree in part.
Yes, unfortunately they are often sold and marketed as appliances, but they also come with instructions and software for proper care and feeding. They almost always come with anti-virus and backup/security software, often pre-installed. If the consumer ignores those services -- which is entirely their right to do, mind you -- then they are taking responsibility for doing those things themselves.
I do know what you're saying. FWIW, I have a tablet, and I use it extensively when I'm in "consumer" mode myself -- doing email, browsing the web, watching Netflix or YouTube videos, and of course FReeping. My "real" computer is for serious work requiring more monitor real estate and more horsepower.
If a consumer doesn't want to have to deal with all the technical crapola that comes with a real computer, then they should get themselves an all-in-one tablet and not fool around with something they're not going to take proper care of.
Finally, I dislike sales/marketing people who sell things for the wrong purposes. If a customer obviously doesn't want to deal with technical details, care and feeding, etc. then the sales person should sell them a tablet; and they are doing their customer a great disservice if they up-sell them to a real computer.
All the above is IMO, of course. YMMV.
Hopefully, they were able to roll it back - but the update probably jacked things up royally, anyway.
I disabled the update path on mine, till after the free upgrade finished up.
question: when ms does an update, is it simply new files are installed or are old ones overwritten or deleted the point being, if i restore an old registration setpoint, will it find the files it needs or are they gone/corrupt?
Both.
> the point being, if i restore an old registration setpoint, will it find the files it needs or are they gone/corrupt?
For system files, it will usually find the files it needs. Not for user data or installed applications, however.
Briefly, a restore point done right before a Windows Update will attempt to save a copy of enough system information to be able to restore certain selected parts of the Windows installation to their state prior to the update. The particular things that are saved in a restore point are described here (Wikipedia)
Again: Normal applications and user data (other than your Windows User Profile) are NOT part of a restore point.
Also be aware that a number of conditions can prevent a restore point from being successful (mentioned in the Wikipedia article) such as insufficient disk space to hold the restore point data.
thx, much appreciated
1) ....so no one has an excuse for not learning enough about the tool to use it safely.
2) .... pushing Win10 on people. I see some of that firsthand. But really, is anyone surprised? Really? People should know better by now.
Since I teach computer use on a regular basis, I come across a lot of people that are intimidated by so-called "experts" like you that talk down to them when they ask questions. You may not realize it, but the condescending tone in your posts intimidates a lot of novice computer owners. My first job is to make them comfortable and at ease with the "tool". Then we can proceed from there. I NEVER look down on someone because they haven't been exposed to the "proper" way to use their new tool.
Okay, fair enough criticisms.
First let me offer my respectful, very high regard for your work as a teacher in a tech area -- not least because my wife is also a teacher, in technology and digital electronics. You are doing wonderful work and I applaud your efforts.
And please let me offer my apology for the offense my comments generated. That was not at all my intent.
Allow me to present an analogy that may help. I own a couple of .22 plinking rifles for backyard target practice, but I don't have a pistol permit. When my daughter indicated interest in marksmanship, a friend who has a pistol permit and a substantial firearm collection offered to teach her the basics of firearm safety and handling. We watched the Eddie Eagle videos together. She learned not just how to shoot both pistols and small rifles, but also proper care and the rules of safe operation.
As you are well aware (especially given your FReeper handle), an improperly maintained, or improperly used, firearm can do substantial injury, including fatal. My daughter took her lessons very seriously, and later went on to win marksmanship awards in high school competition. She is a responsible gun owner and user.
A computer is more than just a means for doing email, FReeping, and posting kitty pics on Facebook. Improperly maintained, or improperly used, it can become the means by which a person loses valuable work documents, personal information, valuable photo albums, and -- if the bad guys take advantage of its poor upkeep -- the person can lose their life savings to an identity thief.
It's not a perfect analogy, but I think you get my point. I did not mean to be arrogant -- I meant to be very, very serious about proper computer use, maintenance, and protection against loss.
With regard to "People should know better by now" about Win10 forced upgrades, I was referring to the fact that Microsoft has been using publicly acknowledged abusive business practices for many decades. IMO, a responsible person looking to choose a computer should consider the reputation of the company who makes the hardware and software, just as a gun owner should consider the reputation of the firearm manufacturer, or the maker of their ammo. It's serious stuff in both cases.
Do most consumers pay any heed to any of that stuff? Unfortunately not. But I see on your FR Profile page:
You Are 100% Conservative, 0% LiberalI am too. And it is my belief that "personal responsibility" includes taking responsibility for learning about one's tools, especially the potentially dangerous ones, learning about their proper care and maintenance, and proper operation. I admit I get rather adamant about this topic, as it is my chosen profession (system admin) and I face the unfortunate results of irresponsibility every day, have to fix them, and try to teach my users how to avoid such problems in the future. I do not "look down on" those who are not "exposed to the proper way to use their tool", but I do become frustrated with those who knowingly ignore such information, and then cause trouble I'm supposed to fix.
Personal Responsibility: 100% Conservative, 0% Liberal
The above may not persuade you of my position, but I hope it persuades you that I meant no offense by my admittedly strong words. Thanks for taking the time to read this.
Very best FRegards,
Dayglored
Thank you. Apology accepted. I genuinely appreciate you taking the time to respond. Don’t have time to answer all your questions/comments right now (I agree with you) but just want to say that, unfortunately, even though some people would love to take “care of their tools” they just don’t have the wherewithal to do so. They’re stretched to be able to do what is required for work. It’s a little like a person who can drive a car, they can’t personally perform the maintenance because they can’t comprehend how to be a mechanic.
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