ich bin ein DEPLORABLE!!!
Posted on 12/22/2016 12:02:42 PM PST by Steely Tom
Edited on 12/22/2016 12:58:10 PM PST by Jim Robinson. [history]
Remember all the snarky comments about how JFK made a fool of himself when he told millions of Germans Ich bin ein Berliner back in 1963?
(Excerpt) Read more at dw.com ...
Especially considering it was a statement of solidarity.
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Pedantry is often a pathetic attempt to assert superiority.
An interesting discussion:
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070416120215AAGoefh
Another confusion may be that, according to Wiki, the pastry isn’t even called a ‘Berliner’, in Berlin.
I think the difference between
Ich bin Berliner
and
Ich bin ein Berliner
is roughly the same as the difference between
I’m German.
and
I’m a German.
The former sounds more idiomatically correct, but the meaning of either is clear. Like “American”, Berliner can be either an adjective or a noun. As a noun it can mean either an inhabitant of Berlin, or a kind of pastry. The meaning should be clear from the context.
Go ahead and dismiss undoctored audio and continue to believe your cherished urban legend. But have ever even considered that a "Berliner" can be both a jellied pastry and a citizen of Berlin (both would be capitalized in German, BTW)?
From the above link, on the subtleties of the German language:
An actual Berliner would say, in proper German, "Ich bin Berliner." But that wouldn't have been the right phrase for Kennedy to use. The addition of the indefinite article "ein" is required, explains [linguist Jürgen] Eichhoff, to express a metaphorical identification between subject and predicate, otherwise the speaker could be taken to say he is literally a citizen of Berlin, which was obviously not Kennedy's intention.To give another example, the German sentences "Er ist Politiker" and "Er ist ein Politiker" both mean "He is a politician," but they're understood by German speakers as different statements with different meanings. The first means, more exactly, "He is (literally) a politician." The second means "He is (like) a politician." You would say of Barack Obama, for example, "Er ist Politiker." But you would say of an organizationally astute coworker, "Er ist ein Politiker."
Germans say stuff like "Ich bin Advokat" or "Ich bin Jurist" to mean "I am a lawyer."
They don't need the article.
"Ich bin Berliner" is the normal German way of saying "I am a Berliner."
If you want to express something different from the everyday literal meaning you could say "Ich bin ein Berliner."
Did you ever hear the one about the missionary and the translator:
A missionary goes to Africa to visit a community, a very old, primitive tribal community. He gives a long sermon. For half an hour he tells a long anecdote, and then the interpreter stands up. He speaks only six words and everyone laughs uproariously. The missionary is puzzled. How is it possible that a story half an hour long can be translated in six words. What kind of amazing language is this? Puzzled, he says to the interpreter, "You have done a miracle. You have spoken only six words. I don't know what you said, but how can you translate my story, which was so long, into only six words?"The interpreter replies, "Story too long, so I say, 'Reverend Jones makes joke. Please laugh!' "
Why would thanking his translator be regarded as funny, unless the translation itself was funny?
But the distinction isn't absolute in German. The national anthem of Prussia from 1830 to 1840 -- the Preussenlied = Song of Prussia -- begins "Ich bin ein Preuße." = "I am a Prussian."
I was taught to say “Ich bin Americaner” without the indefinite article. I know that you cannot translate between English and German word for word. My point was to convey the sense of the two expressions. “Ich bin Berliner.” is more idiomatic and natural than “Ich bin ein Berliner.” more or less for the reasons I said, and yes Berliner can also mean a pastry, but in context the meaning is clear. The German native speakers who I have spoken to do not see any confusion or ambiguity in “Ich bin ein Berliner.” I’d like to hear from more German native speakers.
Answer: he doesn't. But it also doesn't matter, because that's not where the humor lies.
It's a classic joke. The butt of it is the missionary. He is baffled by something he doesn't understand. Then the translator solves the mystery, creating the punch line.
I have to admit, I don’t know why so many are determined to deny that the use of the indefinite article rendered “Berliner” into an inanimate object, i.e. a jelly doughnut. Correct would have been to say “Ich bin Berliner,” however to have done so would have meant he was claiming to literally be from Berlin. Obviously, JFK was not. He intended to communicate solidarity, but made the mistake that Americans often make in German, in trying to transliterate. It doesn’t work.
I recall attempting to compliment one of my German instructors, back in the day before PC, intending to tell her that the way she was dressed looked nice. What I actually said implied that I had a basis of comparison, between how she looked dressed versus undressed.
German is a very precise language, spoken by very precise people, people who just love their rules and abide by them willingly, enforce them willingly. JFK got a good reception because of his intent, but that did not change the fact that he spoke poorly. It was funny, and they laughed.
Yes, and that's why the line was, "Ich bin ein Berliner," which means, "I am like a Berliner," not literally "I am a Berliner."
That fine distinction doesn't exist in English. Put that fact together with the fact that the noun Berliner also means jellied doughnut, and it was easy to manufacture an urban legend at Kennedy's expense.
According to Anatol Stefanowitsch, a Berlin professor of linguistics:
“The confusion derives from the fact that (in German), you normally express your belonging to a predefined group in a sentence without an article, such as ‘Ich bin Student’ or indeed ‘Ich bin Berliner’,” [Stefanowitsch] said.“The sentence ‘Ich bin Berliner’ is clear and cannot refer to ‘doughnuts’ because that is not a predefined group,” he explained.
Stefanowitsch said the construction with the article “ein” is used when a speaker wants to say that he doesn’t literally belong to the group, Berliners in this case, but rather wants to express that he has something in common with them.
“That is exactly what Kennedy wanted to do — he did not want to claim to actually be a resident of the city of Berlin but rather to say that he shared something with the Berliners, namely their love of freedom,” Stefanowitsch said.
No, whatever you might believe to the contrary, Kennedy's German grammar was fully correct to include the "ein". It's like saying "I'm American" vs. "I'm an American". Whoever came up with that pastry meme due to the happenstance that there is a homonymous pastry was a full-blown moron. End of!
I’m Danish. I’m a Danish. /s
I'm Danish - I'm a Dane, would be correct. The direct English transliteration doesn't always make sense, don't you know. Oh, foreign languages are so difficult... Poor you!
I'm well aware. It appears that you aren't, having just provided another example of just why JFK was in error.
No, "I am like a Berliner" would be "Ich bin wie ein Berliner". Geez, get over it already, what Kennedy said was fully correct as intentioned.
ich bin ein DEPLORABLE!!!
Uh...50+ years native German speaker. Over and out, clueless one.
Seriously, though, just drop it. No offense, but you're out of your depth on this.
‘Nam all over again??????????????????? Obama and Merkle should be hung.
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