Posted on 09/21/2016 8:28:35 PM PDT by goldstategop
Designated Survivor - a new series based on the concept of a Cabinet member becoming President. Kiefer Sutherland is outstanding as new President Tim Kirland after the Capitol and top-level US leadership is wiped out in a bomb blast.
I had the same thought about the president’s son and Johnny Dope on Fear the Walking Dead...
That is the new TV game at my house, guess who the homosexuals are...
I agree, I was disappointed by the Michigan plot this week and the portrayal of the police there.
I’m enjoying Kiefer as Kirkman, but if it wasn’t for him I wouldn’t be watching the show. If they continue to have episodes like this one, I may have to stop watching. I hope it doesn’t continue like this because there are aspects of this show I enjoy.
They better not make the GOP Congresswoman (their designated survivor) a bad guy.
An Acting President (i.e., a person acting as President during a temporary vacancy, such as would occur if (i) the president is incapacitated as per the 25th Amendment or (ii) the presidential election gets thrown into the House and none of the candidates has received the vote of 26 state delegations by January 20) may not nominate a VP pursuant to Section 2 of the 25th Amendment. Only a proper President may do so. The 25th Amendment is very clear when it uses the terms “President” and “Acting President.”
Assuming for the sake of argument that the Speaker of the House is an “Officer” eligible to be placed in the line of succession (which I do not believe is the case, irrespective of what Congress legislated at Harry Truman’s behest; similarly, James Madison, who pretty much wrote the damn Constitution, argued that the line of succession adopted by the First Congress, which included the President Pro Tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House (and no one else), was unconstitutional), then the new Speaker would supersede the Secretary of Dog Catching as Acting President from the moment of his election as Speaker. Of course, that would result in the paradox that Madison pointed out and that is still true today: Since the president can’t be a member of Congress pursuant to the Incompatibility Clause, then the Speaker would have to resign from Congress if he became Acting President, and since the Speaker must be a member of the House (irrespective of what some armchair scholars claim—the position of Speaker was based on the Speaker of the(British) House of Commons, who had to be, and always has been, a Member of Parliament), then such person would no longer hold the position (Speaker of the House) that allowed him to be Acting President in the first place. That is one (structural) reason why the Constitution should be interpreted to permit only Executive Branch officers from being in the line of succession. (There also is a textual reason why a legislative officer should not be permitted to be in the line of succession: Throughout Article II, which is where the line-of-succession clause is located, the term “Officer” refers to an “Officer of the United States,” a term that includes Executive Branch officers and Article III judges but not members of Congress.) So if the Constitution still means something, neither the Speaker of the House nor the President Pro Tem could act as President of the United States.
Fortunately, an Acting President may nominate a new Secretary of State, who, upon confirmation by the Senate, would become the new Acting President until the President woke up from his coma.
I will watch the next show. lover Kiefer.
But agree the Lib cloud permeating throughout has me cynical.
At least 24 was not “politically” motivated. This one is not very ‘subtle’ in the plot, but ok, we’ll see if he can carry this show, Not too impressed with acting ability of supporting staff.
I’m watching the 2nd episode that Hubby recorded but they are wanting me to cheer for Kiefer rescuing Michigan’s poor persecuted Muslims. Waiting for BLM to rise from persecution’s ashes, too. Hollyweird is so preachy.
Miss Piggy.
hard not to be sympathetic to the eventual perps.
“An Acting President may not nominate a VP”
Ah I didn’t know that.
Thanks. And I agree, The Speaker and Pres Protem don’t belong in the line of succession. Imagine this scenario, Pres and VP dead, opposite party Speaker next in line, Sec of State sues.
There are some fun nuances in these scenarios. For example if the VP is dead and President in a coma, can section 4 of the 25th even be invoked (without the VP)? Would the only recourse be to impeach and remove the comatose President? Or does the succession act have a provision for that?
To clarify if there is a permanent vacancy and someone below VP takes over they are they the President? That would make sense but the succession act seems to say they’d still only be Acting President.
“For example if the VP is dead and President in a coma, can section 4 of the 25th even be invoked (without the VP)? Would the only recourse be to impeach and remove the comatose President? Or does the succession act have a provision for that?”
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Article II says, inter alia, that the VP shall act as President in the case of “inability to discharge the powers” by the President, and empowers Congress to legislate as to who would act as President if neither the President and VP can discharge such powers. Such language would seem to give Congress leeway to declare a President to be disabled, which, of course, would be very dangerous and one of the reasons why Congress proposed the 25th Amendment. Given that the 25th Amendment came later and is more specific as to how a President’s “inability” is declared, I don’t think that Congress may rely on Article II to declare a President to be unable to discharge the powers of the office and instead the process set forth in the 25th Amendment must play itself out. Since Section 4 of the 25th Amendment provides that the VP (along with a majority of Cabinet officers) has to sign on to any inability certification before it may be presented to Congress, some wooden literalist may claim that if there is a vacancy in the Vice Presidency then the President never can be declared unable. However, the most reasonable reading of Section 4 is that the VP must sign on *if there is a VP*, and otherwise a majority of Cabinet officers (or of such other body that Congress designates by legislation) would suffice. Things not covered by the 25th Amendment would be filled in by Congress, since Article II still applies except where specifically preempted by the 25th Amendment. So if a majority of Cabinet officers declare the President unable, and there is a vacancy in the Vice Presidency, the holder of the office next in line in the line-of-succession law would become Acting President. Of course, pursuant to Section 4, the President would get his power back if he communicated to Congress that he was able to exercise his powers, unless a majority of the Cabinet again claimed that he was unable, in which case Congress would decide the issue (with a 2/3 vote from each house required in order to declare the President unable).
Of course, had the President nominated a VP prior to going into the coma or whatever it was that happened to him, then Congress could confirm his VP nominee and then there would be a VP that could participate in the Section 4 process, and the issue of how to treat a vacancy in the Vice Presidency would be moot.
But what if there was no vacancy in the VP, but the VP was in a coma or something? That would be much murkier ground, since the 25th Amendment is silent on the subject of VP inability and Article II empowers Congress to legislate as to who would act as President in both the President and VP were unable, but not to declare the VP to be unable *in the absence of having the inability being needed to declare another officer to be Acting President*. That would create a quandary, but I think that ultimately the certification from a majority of Cabinet officers as to the President’s inability would be deemed sufficient if the VP was assumed to be disabled unless the VP objected to being deemed to be disabled (and, of course, objected to the President being declared unable).
“To clarify if there is a permanent vacancy and someone below VP takes over they are they the President? That would make sense but the succession act seems to say they’d still only be Acting President.”
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The language of Article II (and of the line-of-succession law) speak of who will act as President, and in the case of temporary vacancies that is exactly what occurs. However, only a VP that becomes President truly can be said to be filling a permanent vacancy.
If, say, the Secretary of the Treasury is next in line to act as President due to the death of the President and VP and vacancies in the offices above the Secretary of the Treasury in the line-of-succession law, the Secretary of the Treasury would be the Acting President, but not the President properly speaking, because he would serve not until the next election, but until an office higher than his in the line of succession was filled. For example, if the Secretary of the Treasury acting as President were to nominate a Secretary of State, and such nominee was confirmed by the Senate, then the new Secretary of State would become Acting President. (I’m not including hypotheticals involving the Speaker of the House or the President pro tempore of the Senate given that I don’t believe that such persons constitutionally may be in the line of succession.)
And even if there was a permanent vacancy in the Presidency and the Vice Presidency and the first person in the line of succession (say, the Secretary of State) was the Acting President, it still would not result in such person being the President proper, given that (i) such Acting President could nominate someone else to serve as Secretary of State, and upon confirmation such new Secretary of State would become Acting President and (ii) Congress has the constitutional power to amend the line-of-succession law so that the Secretary of State no longer is first in line, which would make a different officer the new Acting President. While such actions are unlikely (and the latter certainly could be questioned in court), they certainly are possible, and thus an officer other than the VP will be a mere Acting President no matter what happens. Happily, this is consistent with the language of Article II that authorizes Congress to legislate as to which Officer shall “act” as President.
Please note that some scholars believe that Congress could call a new presidential election if both the President and VP die, but I’m not touching that one with a ten-foot pole. : )
Did you see episode two yet? /sigh
Yes. That was my last time watching it.
Ah so if say the Sec of State was Acting President, he would remain Sec and State and only be AP by virtue of this? That makes sense and further illustrates how having the Speaker and Pres Pro Tem in there is stupid since they need to resign from Congress first and thus no longer have those jobs. Thank you, very illuminating.
That’s a grievous error in this work of fiction then, Kiefer is looking to appoint a new Cabinet, most of whom would move ahead of him in the line. Somehow I doubt there will be any court battles over it in the show. It does seem like some will question his legitimacy, but only on the grounds that he was being fired, which is totally irrelevant since it had not happened yet and they chose him as the DS anyway.
I would love to write a more accurate and realistic version of this show but probably no one would watch it. ;p
My idea is the President (D) and Female VP are having an affair and the First Lady shoots them both, killing the VP and leaving her husband in a coma, she’s wounded by the Secret Service but survives to go on trial.
The young Republican Speaker (My author insert of course) takes over and the Dem Sec of State sues and there’s a protracted Supreme Court battle while the new Acting President pisses off the dems by signing bills and withdrawing judicial nominations, while also seeking to win the GOP nomination for the upcoming election over the RINO who had been the frontrunner, a fictional member of the Taft family (sadly RINO in recent generations).
In the end the dems are screwed cause the lib Justices on the Supreme Court incorrectly rule that’s it’s cool for the Speaker to be in the line.
All rights reserved. ;d
For your script to be picked up by a network, you’ll need to cast one of the Jonas brother ir eomething as the Speaker. : )
As for Kiefer Sutherland appointing Cabinet officers and remaining as Acting President, that would be correct if he named a Secretary of State, Secretary of the Treasury, etc., but didn’t submit the nomination to the Senate (or sent it with the understanding that the Senate wouldn’t confirm), which would permit the nominees to serve as Acting Secretary of State, etc. without becoming the proper officers, so Kiefer would remain as the highest ranking proper officer in the line of succession and thus remain Acting President.
In Kiefer’s show the Senate is dead, I presume that would count as a recess. ;p
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