Vanity- question about much Cruz bashing on the debate thread

2-26-16

[InvisibleChurch]

I understand Trump is a candidate who has taken the election cycle by storm and I understand his allure. IIRC, I thought Ted Cruz was the favorite candidate here on Free Republic because of his conservative views. What has happened that Cruz is a figure of derision here? I understand Jeb! and Rubio and other mains stream Republicans being poo-poo'ed. Is Cruz getting slammed merely because he is running against Trump? Last night's thread was like stumbling into an alternate Freeperverse. Another question is: If you weren't supporting Trump, would you support Cruz?

[Svartalfiar]

And you can't win with just one third of the GOP.

Trump probably has less than that right now, but he may be attracting some new or independent voters. I worry that Democrats have been crossing over to vote Trump in order to create chaos for the Repubs.

Funny, cause it's true. Of the several people I've talked to about politics (I'm in Dallas, liberal Texas area), those who are thinking of Trump usually break down into two groups:

- One-third is debating between Trump and Cruz.
- Two-thirds is debating between Trump and Bernie.

I don't think it really has anything to do with crossover votes for chaos. His support/turnout is Pubs that are fed up with the GOPe, and Trump is the most vocal attack-dog, and the rest is younger people who don't know much, and just like him because he's a celebrity.

[HombreSecreto]

Cruz is still my #2, but Trump is #1 choice for me.

There does appear to be some “heated debate” with regard to people’s favorites, but let me share why Cruz probably hurt himself by his current campaign approach.

If Trump wasn’t in the race, I think Cruz would be leading, but he’d be getting pounded horribly by the establishment. Not sure how he would hold up. Trump is hitting him hard enough and Cruz might not be weathering that too well, which means the Democrats/media would be even more damaging to him.

So, for this campaign, since Trump is in the race and doing very well, Cruz would have been better off sticking to his original plan of drafting behind Trump. Would Cruz have got the nomination? No. He would have been in great shape for VP or SCOTUS. Assuming VP, he’s still so young, he would have been in perfect shape in 4 or 8 years.

Where Cruz went off the rails was in deviating from his brand positioning. He was positioning himself as the best conservative, strong evangelical, strong constitutionalist, not as the best manager or executive, which to a large extent the President is.

When Cruz went a bit more “Preacher Ted” before Iowa, it may have turned some voters off, but after Iowa, only the media would have made much hay about that.

Here’s where that conduct I think hurt him. When he and his team had some hiccups on the ethics front (the false rumor about Carson in Iowa, his robo calls in South Carolina, and his forgetting to mention loans from Goldman Sachs in his campaign finance filing), coupled with the “Preacher Ted” conduct, I think Cruz came across a bit hypocritical and more like a regular politician, eliminating some of his brand positioning and differentiation.

Now I do want to mention Cruz’s embracing of Glenn Beck. Beck seems to have really gone weird in recent years. He’s extremely polarizing and in my view, he is likely a net negative to Cruz. Compare that to Joe Arpaio supporting Trump. Who would you rather have?

The final issue is the eligibility issue for both Cruz and Rubio. That topic will generate very heated argument on both sides.

So, overall, I think some people have absorbed the entirety of the campaign and settled in on their favorite or favorites and maybe are venting a bit on the discussions.

Now I don’t know either way, but it might be possible that some of the posters/commenters are actually affiliated with the political process and are trying to influence opinion, so take that into account.

[cincinnati65]

"Just a little confused. Thanks."

I think you may be missing the context. Basically, the Cruz supporters on FR have been telling all the Trump supporters that they are the worst slime in the world, are not true conservatives, and they might as well be voting for Hillary or Bernie, and that Trump should get out (while he's winning) and let Cruz (the "true" conservative), win the nomination.

So as Cruz flounders, you can look for the Trump supporters to throw a little back their way.

[Echo4C]

So it was Cruz that came out swinging? When?

Because the evidence shows the opposite - Cruz said something completely benign about how Trump had New York values, which Trump himself had said just a few years ago.

So how did Trump respond? By calling Cruz nasty names, and how no one likes him, and how much of a liar he is. Is Cruz not supposed to respond to these constant attacks on his character?

[CAluvdubya]

Sine Cruz endorsed open borders Rubio over Build the wall Trump, is it any wonder people are questioning Cruz’s “I’m a staunch conservative” spiel?

[smoothsailing]

Any bashing of Cruz should begin to subside in the weeks to come. He’s becoming irrelevant.

Rubio will be the new golden boy of the anti-Trump cult.

[bramps]

Cruz may have been fine IF he never climbed onto a Christian soapbox. From then on, he had a higher standard to live up to.

His charitable giving declared on his tax returns was a red flag to me. (and if he didn’t declare church tithing, that means he chose to give the government more money???)

What he did to Carson spoke volumes.

He has never risen to the level of the great debater we were led to believe he was.

Trump has come out and said he has changed on abortion. It really pisses me off when Cruz continually tries to imply that Trump is still pro choice with his planned parenthood remarks. Of course we cannot be certain of where Trump’s heart really is, but I think a Christian should be not be blatantly attacking Trump on this as though he was a liar.

Cruz has never cleared up his remarks years ago that he wanted immigration reform to pass. If it was a ‘poison pill’, why would he say that and why has he still not said why he said it?

Cruz has waited far too long to clearly say he would deport illegal aliens. Now it seems disingenuous and he has gone over the top and said they could never come back. That stand would make for some very effective ads against him in a general election by showing children being separated from their parents.

His wife being a VP of Goldman Sachs is not a plus.

The content of this video makes him very much seem like a fraud. AND IT MAKES you wonder what kind of judgment he has with the people he hires (who made this video?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqpHTFJO4mE

[Dick Bachert]

A sad fact is that the majority of Americans can’t — or won’t — read AND UNDERSTAND the 4400 words in our Constitution. I fear most probably won’t read this somewhat lengthy essay on why we’ve LOST — and will continue to LOSE — the RIGHTS GUARANTEED WE THE PEOPLE AND THE RESTRICTIONS THE FOUNDERS IMPOSED UPON THE GOVERNMENT WITHIN THE MARGINS OF OUR FORMERLY SACRED NATIONAL CHARTER! If you’re having trouble figuring out who is charged with holding government within Mr. Jefferson’s “...chains of the Constitution”, check the reflection in the nearest mirror.
“Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; if it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it.” — Judge Learned Hand, 1944
http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd710.htm

[MNJohnnie]

Really do not want to play this game chidlren

Cruz, Carson Held Secret Meeting About Dirty Tricks In A Closet 2/20/2016, 9:15:26 AM · 52 of 120 corkoman to OldSaltUSN Crass newbies bloviating for Trump = paid shills. After Nov you will take your 30 pieces and sail away.

[MNJohnnie]

I have no problem with tough rhetoric. I have a problem with the passive/aggressive nature of people who throw verbal punches then rage when the target punches back.

40 years of fighting the Leftist who LOVE to us this tactics leave me little patience for “conservative” who want to adopt the same tactic.

My personal preference is we simply top throwing punches and recognize that ANY of the GOP candidate are so far superior to the Democrat choices.

If Cruz wins I will as energetically and enthusiastically work for him as I would for Trump.

I want my country back. My candidate will be anyone willing to join me in that fight.

[CAluvdubya]

After reading this thread, I think you have your answer.

The Trump supporters answered with an actual reason, most of which is about Cruz's positions and campaign tricks.

The Cruz supporters on this thread have, yet again, attacked other posters and Trump on a personal level....name calling etc.

So, as evidenced by your very own thread, you have your answer.

[PGalt]

HOORAY Cruz
HOORAY Trump

Both can take a punch.

[Echo4C]

If you don’t want to play games, then stop arrogantly calling people “children.”

[Salamander]

Yep

/gritting teeth

It’s that damn “trumpet” riff that’s killing me

[wardaddy]

Yes but barely

He’s just another slick but he is far better than most

Rubio is just pitiful with that fake smile

[Shadow44]

I’ve seen Jim DeMint, Mike Lee, and countless other solid tea party Republicans trashed as being fake conservatives no different than McCain.

The hysteria is insane. Apparently only Trump is a conservative.

[wardaddy]

Cruz or nothing folks here are the church ladies of the forum...not literally

But insufferably self righteous invoking God incessantly

Pardon me but Jesus was nowhere near that melee last night

That was obvious

Rubio was a brat

Cruz only marginally better

I tell you ....Cruz I can handle...he looked not proud of himself but Rubio looked just plain awful

Worse than a tote the note car lot operator

[Cottonpatch]

It is about God. If you stand for Jesus Christ in this world you will be hated.
Most church members won’t stand for Him except in times of need.
Our nation is on a slippery slide and it is probably not going to stop unless people will return to our God. Unless God intervenes and gives us another chance we will have another godless president.
Ted Cruz stands for Jesus Christ and that is his problem. God bless him.

[lodi90]

You would be surprised how many very conservative Christian people are planning to vote for Trump

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I’m not surprised at all. Christians are good detectors of character. I’m sure they would be voting for Cruz if he was authentic. Unfortunately, Ted Cruz the man doesn’t match the Ted Cruz Lion of Conservatism myth.

[lodi90]

Because the evidence shows the opposite - Cruz said something completely benign about how Trump had New York values, which Trump himself had said just a few years ago.

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There was nothing benign about the Trump NY Values smear. It was a poll tested calculated hit. And it was 17 years ago Trump said that, btw.