We had the chance, and we blew it.

FreeRepublic ^ | 2/19/2016 | Washi

[nathanbedford]

Yaelle, I have come to respect your contributions to this thread over the years and I certainly take your criticism very seriously. More, I think the issue you raise, the treatment of Christianity especially evangelical Christianity, is well worth exploring.

Let's assume for a moment that neither Trump nor Cruz pretends to Christian virtue. In other words, we must judge these candidates on the basis of their deeds alone without reference to whether or not they are Christian hypocrites. In post #117 I alleged the following about Donald Trump:

He tried to throw elderly people out into the street so they can convert their apartments into condominiums; he tries to evict little old ladies from their home so he can build parking lots for gamblers limousines; that he has hired illegal aliens; he has greased politicians; he has lied about the quality of his buildings; he has instituting frivolous lawsuits; he associates with convicted felons; he has fleeced vulnerable students; he has acted as a bully; and he has vilified, intimidated, sued, bankrupted and defrauded people; he has lied about his opposition to the war in Vietnam.

This is damning bill of particulars and I aver that many more peccadillos could be added to it. Against this indictment on this thread we are told that this is "old news", and other words, no attempt is made to defend Donald Trump on the substance of these charges.

Let us move to a consideration of Ted Cruz:

He is alleged to have behaved in a "sleazy" manner in the Ben Carson affair in Iowa; he is alleged to have distributed "sleazy" flyers in Iowa; (I would add for later consideration the following charge: in the biblical phrase, "he makes broad his phylacteries"(in other words he wears his religion on his sleeve and, in your words, that can be "embarrassing.")

Now if the charges against Donald Trump are true surely you would say that this is a man of dubious qualification to be the moral and secular leader of the nation. If these charges against Ted Cruz are true, you would surely say this is merely the rub and chaff of the political contest. I am prepared to indict and prosecute Donald Trump on the bill of particulars outlined above and I am prepared to defend Ted Cruz on these lesser charges as well. But what happens with these charges against both men is that Trump supporters move the goalposts, they change the standard, in fact, they apply almost no standard to Donald Trump even as they apply an impossible standard to Ted Cruz. How does the supporter of Donald Trump justify inverting these standards of judgment? They accuse Ted Cruz of making broad his phylacteries and they claim that because he is a prominent exponent of his religion, he is a hypocrite and therefore unworthy.

The Christian religion quite rightly points to forgiveness as you have accurately pointed out but then the Christian conception of man is of a fallen sinner in need of redemption, "all have sinned all fall short of the glory of God," hence the need for rebirth. As Paul said, it is the good that I would do that I do not and the evil that I would not do that I do, indicating that even the reborn Christian is subject to sin. A Christian familiar with his Bible is not surprised that Ted Cruz is not perfect but that same Christian does not lose perspective in the real world. He would ask, what is the nature and degree of sin this Ted Cruz? He would ask, is it Ted Cruz who is a disgrace to Christianity or is it the outsider who purports to be so put off because Ted Cruz is not 100% perfect while he proclaims his faith?

Ted Cruz has an absolute right to proclaim his faith, in fact he has a biblical obligation so to do in the great commission and it is not necessary for him to separate strictly his politics from his religion. Those who insist that he do so and claim they are put off when he declines to do so, are fixing a standard to him which is unreasonable. Worse, they pervert the standard and use it to forgive (as though they had that power) to forgive the far greater sins of Donald Trump. They claim they are segregating the religious from the political world but in fact they are perverting them both.

If Ted Cruz's religion is to be so deplored, why is it that he leadssuch an exemplary life? If Donald Trump's religion is so enlightened why does he leave so many victims in his wake?

[kabar]

I’d say they are both winning— and after today, one will be more winning than the other— but to declare either of them TEH WINNAH is *so* premature.

A third place for Cruz will be devastating. It is all about momentum heading into NV and then Super Tuesday on March 1st.

Trump came in a strong second in Iowa losing 28%-24%. In NH, Trump beat Cruz 35% to 12%. Cruz barely finished third by less than 1% over Bush. Some winners are more equal than others. SC could prove decisive. More than likely, it will mean the end of the Bush candidacy. This should boost Rubio ahead of Cruz in the upcoming races.

Off to vote here in SC. Should be an interesting day.

[Grizzled Bear]

But, honestly, he’s disappointed me a time or two on some pretty important issues (TPA, trusting McConnell, teddy bears to illegals, letting Beck “take over some of his rallies...).

No candidate is perfect. One of the reasons I left this site for so long was I got sick of the establishment sheeple lambasting us for rejecting their party's selected candidate.

I'll put down the Teddy Bears as either an act of kindness or perhaps a way to get close enough to see what was really happening. Remember the Democrats tried to block Republicans from seeing what was going on in the centers. He was able to get close enough to see the "children." Meanwhile, his plan for immigration reform will deport and ban illegals from returning. If I recall, Trump's plan will allow those who entered illegally to come back.

As far as Mitch and the TPP, McConnell lied to Cruz. Cruz tried to "work with the party" as Trump supporters accused him of failing to do. Cruz called Mitch out for lying.

Concerning Beck... That was a squirrely choice. Trump definitely chose well with Ms Pierson.

[Steven Tyler]

I initially liked Ted cruz.
Then, Trump released his platform. I liked both Trump and Cruz. Heck, I thought Trump could be the “rodeo clown” and soak up all the crap from the GOPe, allowing Cruz to draft behind unscathed.

But, creepy lying Cruz revealed himself as a dishonest person. Someone who struggled to pay off his student loans, yet congered up 1.2 million to fund his campaign.
Cruz cannot be honest about his Canada citizenship!!!
Cruz needs to leave the race before his does real damage to the constitution.

[Steven Tyler]

Cruz is a Canadian, not eligible for potus.
The ends can never justify the means

[Windflier]

I’m not a lawyer either, but I seriously doubt that it’s fair use to take a snippet from a copywritten broadcast and use it to promote a political candidate.

That’s not merely quoting someone. It’s using their words for gain or benefit.

[Baldwin77]

As far as Mitch and the TPP, McConnell lied to Cruz. Cruz tried to “work with the party” as Trump supporters accused him of failing to do. Cruz called Mitch out for lying.

=== === === ===

If Cruz didn’t know what a lying sack of shhit McConnell was when coming to the Senate, he has a problem of assessment.

Beck is another example of poor assessment of people.

[JSDude1]

Because Jesus tells one to forgive a Christian brother..that’s why HIS opinion outrules mine or yours or even Ben Carson’s!

[AFreeBird]

You’re probably right. And if so, I imagine Rush has his lawyers warming up on the bullpen. Unless he supports Cruz. He may not have given permission, but he might let it slide.

We’ll see.

[JSDude1]

Not the truest form of Conservatism: that would be Constitutionalism/the rule of law. I don’t want a nationalism that would evolve into despotism. We’ve already had 8’years of that on the left!!!!

[Axeslinger]

You Answered your own question.
You’ve gone completely nuts.

[captmar-vell]

“Must Stop Rubio should be the game plan.”

True, when loser Jeb officially fails, Rubio will then become the GOPe go to guy and in the general he’ll roll over for Hillary even faster than that NWO Bush spawn,

I’m a Cruz supporter first but will vote for Trump if hes the nominee. I will not vote for Bush, Kasich or Rubio if they become the nominee. And regardless I fully expect one of these three to likely end up on the VP shortlist,

[Dead Corpse]

Many have said as much, few listen. I think therein lies the deeper problem.

[Windflier]

“Unless he supports Cruz.”

Ha ha ha ha! Good one!

[Grizzled Bear]

If Cruz didn’t know what a lying sack of shhit McConnell was when coming to the Senate, he has a problem of assessment.

What happened to "None of Cruz's colleagues liiiiike him! He has to be able to woooorrrk with the establishment!"

Can you guys keep your expectations straight?

At least now nobody can say Cruz didn't attempt to work with the GOP establishment. He's got a stick to smack them down when he has to deal with them.

[Windflier]

Sorry. I shouldn’t have mocked your post. The irony of that one sentence just struck me as funny.

Rush is very much in the Cruz camp, in my opinion. His attempts to hide it are pretty weak and ineffective. We listeners let him get away with it because he doesn’t overtly say so.

This Cruz campaign commercial crosses that line, which breaks a longstanding deal with his public.

[cp124]

I will stay at home and enjoy a good book on election day.

The Communist Manifesto will be a good read for you as window in to your future.

You are not real bright are you?

[bramps]

I think you replied to the wrong poster.

[Yaelle]

You are a graceful, eloquent writer and it’s awfully fresh of me to even take you on, because you know your subject matter better than I do, both the details of the men’s lives as well as your religion. I guess my purpose in responding is out of respect for your response, and to still disagree on how the two men come off religiously.

I will stipulate that Trump has done those callous things in your post. I assume billionnaires do step on toes in their dealings and I doubt that even those who donate millions to charity and show multiple kindnesses avoid some of those bad deeds in their CVs. I assume many Christians have a lot of Acts they end up ashamed of.

Ted Cruz’s life is not as on display as the much older, more famous man, but I’d assume he has probably an equivalent number per year of sins as Trump. I assume both men have cared about doing good and have done their best but fell short year after year.

Sadly, the appearance of impropriety hurts more the reputation of the man who preaches his religion daily. This doesn’t seem fair but it just is. We are told in the Jewish religion that if you are dressed obviously as a Jew, you have MORE RESPONSIBILITY to your fellow Jews than if you are not. A man wearing a yarmulke seen walking into Tony’s House of Bacon just to use the restroom will give a false impression and may cause another Jew seeing him to sin. He should seek another restroom for appearance’s sake.

So a Ted Cruz, who is running on Christianity, should make more of an effort to run an honest, decent campaign.

Most of our presidential politicians over the years have been Christian. Most of them did not ask to be held to a higher standard. George W Bush had a compelling story of returning to the fold, and I’ll even give Kasich credit for his apparent religious growth. But only a few candidates really heavily spread their faith verbally over everything, and when they do dishonest things in the course of their “Christian campaigning,” the optics and the reaction to them stings. Huckabee is the perfect example.

I admire Trump frankly saying that he caused his marriages to fail, and admitting that in business you have to be “sharp” and work around laws, etc. He’s very matter of fact about it. I cringe when Cruz doesn’t do the same re his campaign tricks, because it would be easy for a good man to say, “I lost control of my team there, and the guy who did it is no longer with us. I see how that looks now.” Or “Now that I look at that photo, it does send the wrong message and I’m sorry I approved that ad.”

I don’t think wearing your Christianity on your sleeve means you can’t be forthright and humble, but often the two seem mutually exclusive.

[The Iceman Cometh]

What is not true, not fair, immoral is Donald Trump's assertion of lies on the part of Ted Cruz personally or even on the part of the Ted Cruz campaign.

Okay, got it. It was a false statement and not a lie. Sounds legit.