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Nazi Germany’s Panzer Corps Faked It ‘Til It Made It
War is Boring ^ | December 27, 2015 | David Axe

Posted on 12/28/2015 10:27:21 AM PST by C19fan

The terms of the Versailles Treaty that ended World War I prohibited Germany from joining Great Britain, France and other major powers in developing tanks — those heavily-armed, thickly-armored tracked vehicles that had debuted late in the conflict and had helped to break the stalemate of trench warfare.

But the tank ban didn’t actually stop Nazi Germany from inventing new tanks and refining tactics for their use. Instead, the treaty limitations pushed German armored vehicle development into the military-industrial shadows. In the decades before Panzers swept across Europe and the Soviet Union, the Panzerwaffe armored corps evolved in secrecy.

(Excerpt) Read more at warisboring.com ...


TOPICS: History; Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: armored; davidaxe; germany; tanks; warfare; warisboring; ww2
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To: T-Bone Texan

You’re welcome. I didn’t know that there was only one surviving model in Russia.


101 posted on 12/28/2015 7:14:15 PM PST by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: all armed conservatives.)
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To: T-Bone Texan

You might like this too: Tiger commander Michael Wittman and the battle of Villers-Bocage.
http://www.badassoftheweek.com/wittman.html
He and another Tiger pretty much had their way with an entire British armored column. Some rough language.


102 posted on 12/28/2015 7:20:14 PM PST by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: all armed conservatives.)
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To: tumblindice

Inside the last Maus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PTFnl316ug


103 posted on 12/28/2015 7:31:13 PM PST by Riley (The Fourth Estate is the Fifth Column.)
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To: PLMerite

Then the tank I have to be thinking of is the STUART.


104 posted on 12/29/2015 3:54:00 AM PST by LS ("Castles Made of Sand, Fall in the Sea . . . Eventually" (Hendrix))
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To: Bull Snipe

A study out a few years ago said that 80% of the heavy tanks defending Moscow in winter 41/42 were Brit or American. I don’t know what that means if we didn’t’ have any heavy tanks unless they were referring to the Grant/Lee.


105 posted on 12/29/2015 3:58:58 AM PST by LS ("Castles Made of Sand, Fall in the Sea . . . Eventually" (Hendrix))
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To: TruthWillWin
But when I hear Germans speak they sound like they are trying to clear their throats. Expect them to launch a luggie any time.

Dutch is even worse!

106 posted on 12/29/2015 4:52:17 AM PST by Rummyfan (Let us now try liberty)
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To: Oatka

Yeah, they did. I have not been able to nail down any history on this but some of the chatter I have seen suggest they started doing it prior to the Normandy landings in France. It probably one of the things they learned the hard way in the Pacific that got sent back to the states.

One of the things that helped the Allies win is the fact they were more innovative later in the war then the Germans.


107 posted on 12/29/2015 5:09:48 AM PST by MNJohnnie ( Tyranny, like Hell, is not easily conquered)
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To: Rummyfan

My German friends say Dutch is not a language.....it is a disease of the throat.


108 posted on 12/29/2015 5:13:32 AM PST by Einherjar
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To: LS
I think you’re wrong. The GRANT had the fixed gun. The Lee was a light (not medium) tank with a 37 mm.

No the Grant was a British modification of the Lee to include room for a better radio in the turret. What you are thinking of is the Stuart.

109 posted on 12/29/2015 5:15:51 AM PST by MNJohnnie ( Tyranny, like Hell, is not easily conquered)
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To: Riley
I'm tracking a guy in England that found the stripped, rusted, shot-out hulk of a Stg. III in the UK, and is completely reconditioning it. The transformation is stunning.

Does he have a website? That is a totally cool project!

110 posted on 12/29/2015 5:18:19 AM PST by MNJohnnie ( Tyranny, like Hell, is not easily conquered)
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To: frithguild
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1406922/James-Baron.html

James Baron

James Baron, who has died aged 87, was awarded an immediate Military Medal for charging and ramming a German King Tiger tank in Normandy in 1944 while serving with Armoured Irish Guards.

On July 18 the 2nd Armoured Battalion of the Irish Guards was taking part in a powerful armoured thrust near Cagny in Operation Goodwood, which aimed to isolate Caen from the east and free the Allied forces to the west for the forthcoming breakout of Normandy.

The Irish Guards were equipped with Sherman tanks, which had proved to be a reliable fighting vehicle, but were outclassed by the German Tiger and Panther tanks. On the Western Front, the Allies had no answer to Hitler's latest weapon, the King Tiger, armed with an 88 mm gun, originally designed as an anti-aircraft gun. Intelligence reports that it was about to make its appearance in Normandy were received with considerable apprehension.

“What do we do if we meet a King Tiger?” Lance-Corporal Baron had asked his troop commander, Lieutenant John Gorman, at a briefing a few days earlier. “The only thing we can do,” Gorman told his driver, “is to use naval tactics. If the 88 mm gun is pointing away from us, we shall have to use the speed of the Sherman and ram it.”

On the afternoon of July 18, as Gorman came round the corner of a hedge in his Sherman, he saw four German tanks 300 yards away in the middle of a field. There was an old-fashioned Tiger, a Panther, an old Mark IV and a King Tiger - the first seen in battle on the Western Front.

111 posted on 12/29/2015 5:26:39 AM PST by MNJohnnie ( Tyranny, like Hell, is not easily conquered)
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To: MNJohnnie

Yes, as I noted above. I was thinking of a true light tank, which got chewed up in N. Africa, the Stuart. Had a 37mm gun.


112 posted on 12/29/2015 6:51:44 AM PST by LS ("Castles Made of Sand, Fall in the Sea . . . Eventually" (Hendrix))
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To: LS

The M3 (Lee/Grant) was a medium tank. At the time we may have shipped some to the Reds. The Brits provided the bulk of lend lease tanks in late 41. These could have been M3s or their Matildas. I think at the time only the Soviets built “Heavy” tanks. This would have been the KV-1 series in late 41.


113 posted on 12/29/2015 7:30:45 AM PST by Bull Snipe
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To: Bull Snipe

Matildas were just crap. Yeah, they could take a punch, but ugh.


114 posted on 12/29/2015 7:33:48 AM PST by LS ("Castles Made of Sand, Fall in the Sea . . . Eventually" (Hendrix))
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To: LS
Slander! Matilda did what she was designed to do. Problem is she was designed for the wrong type of war

With its heavy armour, the Matilda II was an excellent infantry support tank but with somewhat limited speed and armament. It was the only British tank to serve from the start of the war to its end,

115 posted on 12/29/2015 7:51:20 AM PST by MNJohnnie ( Tyranny, like Hell, is not easily conquered)
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To: MNJohnnie

What about the Matilda I, though? There were plenty of those in service at the beginning of WW II, no?


116 posted on 12/29/2015 7:54:42 AM PST by LS ("Castles Made of Sand, Fall in the Sea . . . Eventually" (Hendrix))
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To: LS

True the Matilda 1 was bad.


117 posted on 12/29/2015 7:59:19 AM PST by MNJohnnie ( Tyranny, like Hell, is not easily conquered)
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To: MNJohnnie

I know first hand. I play “Panzer General” and “Allied General.” You can bomb the crap out of them, but they can’t kill anything.


118 posted on 12/29/2015 8:02:24 AM PST by LS ("Castles Made of Sand, Fall in the Sea . . . Eventually" (Hendrix))
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To: C19fan
The British in the 1920s experimented with combined all arms mechanized units.

The Americans under Henry Knox experimented with combined arms- Heavy and Light Infantry, Cavalry, Artillery and Engineers, plus sufficient organic medical and transportation assets to handle at least immediate short-term needs, known as the Legion of the United States as far back as 1791-1792.

119 posted on 12/29/2015 8:07:52 AM PST by archy (Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears, they'll kill you a little, and eat you.)
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To: wally_bert
Nobody said nothing about locking horns with tigers!

Baby....

120 posted on 12/29/2015 8:08:42 AM PST by archy (Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears, they'll kill you a little, and eat you.)
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