Nazi Germany’s Panzer Corps Faked It ‘Til It Made It

War is Boring ^ | December 27, 2015 | David Axe

[C19fan]

The terms of the Versailles Treaty that ended World War I prohibited Germany from joining Great Britain, France and other major powers in developing tanks — those heavily-armed, thickly-armored tracked vehicles that had debuted late in the conflict and had helped to break the stalemate of trench warfare.

But the tank ban didn’t actually stop Nazi Germany from inventing new tanks and refining tactics for their use. Instead, the treaty limitations pushed German armored vehicle development into the military-industrial shadows. In the decades before Panzers swept across Europe and the Soviet Union, the Panzerwaffe armored corps evolved in secrecy.

[LS]

Dooh. I misremembered the legend on a slide I have in class. Yes, 90 mm. Do you know what year those came in?

[PLMerite]

I never knew how many Sherman variants there were.

The 90mm Sherman was known as the M36 and first combat was September '44 per wiki.

Wikipedia is where I'm getting my info. You can get lost in there very easily.

[wally_bert]

I’ve had positive waves about that damn bridge the whole time.

[central_va]

From what I understand Stalin has no intention of ever invading the West. Hitlers invasion was a total shock and failure of Soviet intelligence.

[Oatka]

Actually those vastly superior early war tanks theAallies had did not have radios, the German tanks did.

Somewhere I read that it was fairly late in the war before they put phones on the OUTSIDE of the tank so the supporting infantry could talk to the commander - probably to direct fire at a target the guy couldn't see because he was buttoned up.

[T-Bone Texan]

Thanks for the interesting link re: the Maus tank!

[nomorelurker]

Saving that last line as my new tagline

[Blogatron]

My 6th grade teacher was with the 101st around St. Mere Eglise. He told us how almost helpless they were against Tigers with what they had brought. He told us about lying flat in a strawberry patch, hoping the Tigers wouldn’t find them and how one passed so close he could reach out and touch it. He said they eventually brought in navy spotters who coordinated naval artillery against them. A few of those big navy rounds would start landing around them and the crew would just jump out and run like hell.

[Idaho_Cowboy]

The Jackson tank destroyer. If I remember my history correctly, Creighton Abrams was in charge of one during the battle of the bulge and was point man for the 3rd Army's breakthrough to Bastogne. If I have remembered incorrectly feel free to correct.

[driftless2]

I'll have to disagree. Again, Germany had not defeated Great Britain and the commonwealth. The war in the Atlantic was critical for Hitler. Like everywhere else, Germany was very successful there for the first two years. After about three years things started going downhill fast. The Allies controlled the seas. Germany would have to sit tight in where they were and hope an armistice. But Churchill and Roosevelt/Truman were not going to give in.

Even without the SU, America could outproduce Germany. So Hitler still had to battle GB and America. Remember, during WWI after Russia surrendered, Germany had an extra million troops to go to the western front. They still lost.

In the end America's huge capacity for resources plus manpower would do in Germany. Germany had the V2 rockets, but America was developing the atomic bomb. In the end, Germany would be worn down. Or Berlin destroyed by an atomic bomb.

[Oztrich Boy]

THe M3 Lee was a medium tank like the Sherman. In fact the Sherman was the Lee rearranged to put the 75mm gun in a turret instead of poking out the front of the hull

[miliantnutcase]

You could also say if Heisenberg wanted Hitler to have the bomb he could have built it first.

[LS]

I think you’re wrong. The GRANT had the fixed gun. The Lee was a light (not medium) tank with a 37 mm.

[Oztrich Boy]

but no WWII production Sherman ever had a 120mm gun to my knowledge and brief internet search. What various armies around the world did with Shermans after the war I cannot be held responsible for

The Israelis got up to 105mm in the 60s, and that's probably the limit of what was possible

[Oztrich Boy]

M3 had both. 75mm in hull, 37 mm in turret. LEEs were the base model, GRANTs were Lees with British turrets

[LS]

Did not know that. Always thought the Lee was a different chassis.

[Bull Snipe]

Actually the number was around 40,000 M4s from 42 through 45.

[Harold Shea]

Gen.Abrams came into our signals bunker in Quan Tri
for an inspection in `71.Seemed impressed by our setup.

My father remembered him from ww2 service.

Daddy also used to talk of the terror those 88`s and
Tigers would create for the GI`s.A tree-burst ended
daddys time on the line.At least he got out alive barely.

[PLMerite]

From wiki:

Grant (Brit) on left, Lee (US) on right.

[Bull Snipe]

We shipped the Russian 6000 M4A2s. These Shermans were diesel powered at the request of the Soviets. The balance of armor sent the Soviets were mostly M3s and some odds and ends.