Apple gets partial win on appeal in Samsung patent case

Yahoo Finance News ^ | May 18, 2015 | By Andrew Chung and Julia Love

[Swordmaker]

NEW YORK/SAN FRANCISCO, May 18 (Reuters) - Apple Inc was handed a mixed ruling by a U.S. appeals court in the latest twist in a blockbuster intellectual property battle with Samsung Electronics Co Ltd, as a prior patent infringement verdict was upheld but a trademark finding that the iPhone's appearance could be protected was thrown out.

That means up to 40 percent of a $930 million verdict which had been won by Apple must be reconsidered.

In the highly anticipated ruling stemming from the global smartphone wars, the Federal Circuit in Washington, D.C. upheld patent infringement violations including one which protects the shape and color of its iPhone as well as the damages awarded for those violations.

"This is a victory for design and those who respect it," Apple said in a statement on Monday. A Samsung representative declined immediately comment.

[Swordmaker]

If this is all irrelevant then why are you the one who posted the irrelevant picture showing cell phones before the iPhone (minus those that which were rectangular with rounded corners) and cell phones after the iPhone (minus flip phones, blackberries, and other designs still being made that were not rectangular with rounded corners)? The original iPhone... like just about everything else that Apple has come out before and since is almost always an evolution of designs and functions that other developers came up with previously.

Show me all the phones before the iPhone that were monolithic phones with a large screen, no keyboards, and almost all controls on the screen operated by a finger. Go ahead. . . find them. The point is that there was a sea change in phone design that happened BECAUSE of the iPhone. . . not any other phone made that kind of change. All the phones before the iPhone did not make that kind of impact on design of phones.

You can dance all you like about this feature and that feature, but it is the totality of the design you keep ignoring that brought that sea change about. . . the design that WORKED so differently from all previous cellular phones, smart and not-so-smart.

So go ahead, find all those slab phones that were so similar to the iPhone you claim pre-dated the iPhone . . . show me. You've pointed to one. a resistance screen phone that required a stylus. . . and would not work without said stylus. . . and had EIGHT buttons to maneuver around the phone, on the face. NOT anything like the iPhone at all, or the vast majority of phones post iPhone. Where are the single screen minimal button phones pre-iPhone. PLEASE.

You and I both know that Apple did not come up with multi-touch capacitive screens. . . To claim that Apple was the first to think of such a thing is outrageous.

You keep claiming this, but it is NOT true. Apple does indeed hold the patents on the multi-touch capacitance screens that WORK. You can claim that they do not, but making them actually work is what Apple accomplished. I posted the patents not too long ago. . . and the challenges that were denied and the proofs of why the challenges were denied. I am getting TIRED of arguing this falsehood.

Others were working on it, but they could NOT make their solutions work reliably to use on any devices except for HUGE X.Y choice screens. . . and then not for multi-touch. They randomized too easily. Apple then worked years on devising ways to determine how to decipher what was a scrolling motion and what was a mere accidental movement of a finger to allow the system to be stable. They also had to work to determine the CENTER of the touch of a broad touch of a finger to localize it. IT was not trivial or obvious as you seem to think. THAT was why Apple and it's engineers got the patent.

LG KE-850 Prada

In fact, the only capacitance touch phone that made it to market before the iPhone, was a SINGLE TOUCH phone, the LG-KE850 made for Prada, announced officially in February 2007, one month after Apple announced and demonstrated the multi-touch Apple iPhone, which Apple had been working on for four years. . . and had filed preliminary patents on in 2004. LG sold the Prada in Europe in May of 2007, one month before the iPhone went on sale in June of 2007. . . but it was only a feature phone, not a smartphone, but it does hold the honor of being the first capacitance touch phone. It was just not a multi-touch screen. It had no scrolling, and merely had a simple X,Y grid touch system.

To try and claim that a Samsung S3 could be mistaken for an iPhone is ridiculous and I am happy that on appeal this has been thrown out.

It is not ridiculous. . . in fact this image shows it is very difficult to tell them apart:

Remember, that under Design patents, extra buttons or names do not make a difference. Interestingly, had this case been heard in any other appellate district than the Ninth Circus Court of Schlemiels, it could not have been reversed. Only in the Ninth, which is the case law the US District Court in Washington DC used, do they hold such a strict rule that Design patents have to have no discernible utility functions at all to be protectable under a Design Patent. As there was case law in the Ninth Circus to that extent, the DC appellate court reversed, because Samsung claimed the shape of the corners facilitated slipping the phone into pockets which a sharp corner would not. . . and the inset bezel prevented the glass from striking the ground first and shattering. This made them not merely ornamental, but functional and ergo, not protectable by a Design patent. However, the overall utility patent of the iPhone ALSO includes those features, and may be extended to cover in a revisit of the trial.

[fireman15]

You've pointed to one. a resistance screen phone that required a stylus. . . and would not work without said stylus. .

I still have my PPC-6700 unlike most original iPhones it still works. I occasionally still use it on Ting. It has a stylus, but it is not “required”. It works fine without the stylus. Despite coming out in 2005... years before the iPhone it still outperformed the original iPhone in many ways, especially when it came to Internet performance. Other than having a multi-touch screen... I would still like a list of what you think that the original iPhone did that the PPC-6700 would not.

Obviously any device that managed to sell over 6,000,000 units was well designed and well marketed and was a great success. I truly do not completely understand how Apple does it, but they obviously are trend setters. So no matter how this argument ends, Apple still gets the last laugh because they are the ones who have made literally billions of dollars and became the largest company in the world producing these types of devices. But, is it wrong to give a little credit where credit is due even if the foundation of much of this success came from innovators outside of Apple?

Apple was not the company who first came up with phones that were rectangular with rounded corners. Apple was not the first to come up with rectangular touch screens for phones. If you have a case with a rectangular shape with rounded corners and a rectangular screen and you throw in a button or two... it really doesn't matter what you do the devices are going to look similar. How you can argue this proves anything sounds silly and is beyond me.

Apple was not the first to produce devices using multi-touch capacitance screens that “worked” that could zoom in and out and go up and down using fingers. That is why most of Apple's “patents” on “gestures” have been determined to be invalid or highly questionable. Of course resistive screens are also capable of zooming in and out and moving from side to side using “just fingers”. If you had more experience using non-Apple products you might realize just how ridiculous some of your claims sound.

When it comes to Apple products you are the most knowledgeable person that I know. When it comes to non-Apple products you often just do not have a clue what you are talking about. I can only assume that your knowledge of non-Apple products comes from reading about them from comments on Apple product forums.

Your efforts as an apologist for the hired goons in the Apple legal department are admirable, but nothing can change the fact that they are a bunch of bullies whose efforts stifle innovation. To me it seems extremely distasteful that the largest company in the world goes to so much effort to hobble their competition. I doubt whether any other company has been as successful at manipulating our patent system.

[fireman15]

[Swordmaker]

I still have my PPC-6700 unlike most original iPhones it still works. I occasionally still use it on Ting. It has a stylus, but it is not “required”. It works fine without the stylus. Despite coming out in 2005... years before the iPhone it still outperformed the original iPhone in many ways, especially when it came to Internet performance. Other than having a multi-touch screen... I would still like a list of what you think that the original iPhone did that the PPC-6700 would not.

Amazing. What makes you think that an original iPhone wouldn't work? I finally retired MY original iPhone from being a phone —which had been passed down through various family members—a year ago last week after seven years of use and it was still on its original battery. It is still being used as an iPod touch by my Three year old grand daughter. . . and still on its original battery.

Your phone was good in its day, but that was ten years ago. . . too bad you think that technology does not advance.

And yes, you may be barely able to make that phone work without the stylus, but to be able to do anything accurately on your PPC-6700 screen you need that stylus, or it would not have been included. And no, it did NOT outperform the iPhone on internet performance because the iPhone could display full desktop internet screens, which up to then, no mobile device could do, being limited to Mobile Web screens. Do you really think that a mobile web experience where you have to scroll from side to side to see the screen, is the same as the iPhone's full featured full web experience, able to see the full page with the ability to scroll around and pinch into any detail needed? I don't think so. The iPhone was NOT limited to just mobile internet and could display the entire desktop experience. YOU really do not know what you are talking about, do you? The only thing the original iPhone would not do was FLASH video, because they ate power. Once Apple allowed apps, there were third party browsers that even allowed that.

Your PPC-6700 is a toy in comparison to the first iPhone and even more so compared to later iPhones. Yours has just 64MB of RAM. . . compared to 128MB of RAM. Yours had only 128Megabytes of storage to which you could add a 32Megabyte card. The iPhone came with 8 to 16Gigabytes! Screen? 2.88 diagonal 64K 16bit TFT screen on your toy, compared to a 3.5" 24 million color screen at twice the resolution. GPS? Don't make me laugh. Yours doesn't have one. Yes, your's can play music, but it's limited in music storage. . . The iPhone could store thousands of songs.

Let's see. . . motion sensors? Yours? Nope. iPhone, yup! Compass? Yours? Nope. iPhone, yup! Visual Voice Mail, where you could see who called and select which message to listen to or not. . . your phone, NOPE. iPhone, yup!

How many photos could you store on your toy? At 1.8 megapixels in full color? Not too many? The average full color photo that rear cam on that phone was capable of is about 3.4 Megs in size. . . so Maybe 10 or 15 with all the other stuff on there? Can you still play your Plays for Sure music? Probably not, because Microsoft abandoned it. . . oh, too bad. The iPhone could store hundreds or thousands. Oops.

Your efforts as an apologist for the hired goons in the Apple legal department are admirable, but nothing can change the fact that they are a bunch of bullies whose efforts stifle innovation.

Do you still claim that the Samsung Galaxy 3S phone on the left was not essentially identical to the iPhone 3Gs on the right after I showed you the photos of them side by side???? If you cannot see that they are identical in appearance, they you are blind as a bat. . . and apparently willfully so.

So my challenge is to post all those phones you claim predate the iPhone that did all of that and could have made the sea change that apple did.

You don't have a clue about innovation, fireman15. Samsung and the others are free to innovate. . . but they have to do their OWN inventing and their OWN designs, not copy Apple's or steal their intellectual property. A jury found that Samsung stole Apple's IP and awarded Apple every bit of the profit that Samsung made on the products they sold using that stolen IP. The courts so far have validated that jury's decision . . . but in this instance, using the twisted Ninth Circuit Court's definition of a Design Patents, that they cannot have any functional use at all, they are sending those back for reconsideration, even though it was the Ninth Circuit that had just ruled the design patents valid! Go figure.

I am not the only one who knows that the Apple iPhone made this sea change and it was a total innovation. . .

How the iPhone changed the mobile game


 The mobile revolution really started in 2007 with Apple ’ s introduction of the iPhone. The iPhone radically and irreversibly redefined mobile devices with relatively fast and simple Web access, an innovative and intuitive touch screen, and the creation/promotion of mobile applications and a mobile app marketplace.

Previously, wireless devices largely functioned as wireless telephones or wireless email devices.

With the iPhone, the world’s first consumer smartphone, mobile devices became mobile computers that also serve as voice and text communication devices. . .

The iPhone enabled its users to directly surf the Internet through its mobile Safari browser instead of using the mobile carrier’s own portal, providing device manufacturers direct customer and revenue relationships.— Source Mobile Marketer—Extracted from "Smartphones, tablets and the mobile revolution" by Colin Knudsen, January 23, 2013

And more, the language is a bit awkward having been translated from who knows where:

Apple Revolution

In 2007, then came an event that changed the world of smartphones far more than anything before. Apple is after years of speculation in January introduced its iPhone. And although it was not the first case of a smartphone, Because in it yet could not install applications, determine its iPhone user interface is clearly the direction in which to go down all smartphones in the coming years.

Putting the iPhone ushered in a gradual retreat from Nokia until unshakable position and fame. At the same time Apple actually canceled the stylus – the stylus, which was needed to control the majority until sold touch devices. In that year, while Nokia launches it s most advanced smartphone Symbian without touchscreens. Model N95, which was before the iPhone introduced in 2006, although the early software sales have plagued various problems, but smartphone represent that could be the best in the world of mobile phones to find. — Source Extracted from "Smartphones History Review Over 20 Years" — Genius Techs

The only apologist I see here is you, trying desperately to denigrate Apple's achievements and innovations in any way you can.

[Swordmaker]

And Apple produced iPhone designs from 2004 and 2005. . . including one from 2004 that looked almost exactly like the one that was finally released, predating those by quite a bit. . . . and when Samsung presented those in court, they all had slide out keyboards and did not have capacitance multi-touch screens nor did they ever get them to market. Sorry. No banana. There was also some question as to whether they really existed or were forgeries. . . especially the Last one. Sorry.

[Swordmaker]

Those cannot be from 2006, fireman15. . . I checked and they are all Android phones. Oops. That is a phony picture. . . and not the phones that Android prototypes introduced in evidence at all. What got me thinking something was fishy is that no one had any front facing cameras in 2006. . . ZZZZZT!

I've run into this kind of phony evidence before.

[Neidermeyer]

Your Anti-Apple derangement syndrome is severe Neidermeyer. . .
***************
I like Apple products, most are quite good , I make money on them .. I do however dislike the bullying tactics of the company and I really dislike those people that are blind to the abusive practices of this company.

The difference between me and you is that I really DO NOT CARE one way or another... AND YOU CANNOT STOP CARING ABOUT A COMPANY THAT DOESN’T EVEN KNOW YOU EXIST. For me tweaking Fanboies is just lighthearted fun. I think you look at it as a never ending fight against the forces of darkness!

That you even think that anyone should care about the subject of this post (in the same way you do) shows me that you are wound WAY TOO TIGHT... Go out and have a Margarita or two...

[fireman15]

These are a few other phones released or in development before the first iPhone which were rectangular with rounded corners strangely missing from the before the iPhone picture you provided.

LG CU915 Vu, released March 2007

LG-KU990, LG Viewty Mobile released October 2007 in development since 2006

HTC Elf 2006

[Swordmaker]

Make that . . . "I checked and they are all Android prototype phones. Oops. That is a phony picture. . . and not the phones that Android prototypesSamsung introduced in evidence at all." Sorry about that.

[fireman15]

And no, it did NOT outperform the iPhone on internet performance.

The original iPhone did not have a 3g radio. If you want to make the argument that your 2G device that performed at about the same or lesser speed than a 56k modem as compared to a 3G device that worked at speeds comparable to DSL or cable modems of the time period... I find that quite amusing and revealing. You are getting into what most people would consider fantasy land however. Can your original iPhone tether to a computer? I don't think so! LOL!!!

And no; you don't need the stylus to use the PPC-6700 effectively. I am glad that your iPhone is still working. How did you replace the battery? Did you send it in before Apple stopped servicing them? LOL!!!

Yours has just 64MB of RAM. . . compared to 128MB of RAM. Yours had only 128Megabytes of storage to which you could add a 32Megabyte card. The iPhone came with 8 to 16Gigabytes

Either you are just making stuff up now, or you don't know the specs on the PPC-6700 or the original iPhone. The original iPhone came with either 4GBs or 8GBs, 16GBs was not available until the 3G model was released. The mini-SD card that came with my PPC-6700 was 1GB which I upgraded to 2GBs and later to 4GBs. It came with 128 MB (Flash memory) built in, and 64 MB Ram.

Of coarse the camera in the iPhone had a better sensor; it was after all released years after the PPC-6700. Other than claiming the PPC-6700 which was released years before the iPhone was a toy in comparison... You still haven't told me anything that the iPhone would do that the PPC-6700 would not. The display on the PPC-6700 can zoom in and out, move side to side and up and down, all without the aid of a stylus.

[Swordmaker]

LG-KU990, LG Viewty Mobile released October 2007 in development since 2006

Apple iPhone announced January 9, 2007, released for sale June 29, 2007. In development since 2004. So the LG-KU990 also known as the LG-CU990 Viewty was released five months after the iPhone was released for sale and ten months after the iPhone was announced and demonstrated. FAIL!

Spec sheet from LG on the KU915 VU, shows it was released "2008, March. Released 2008". BZZT. Sorry. Not true FAIL again.

Did you think I wouldn't check? LG's development time is about three to five months. . . not over a year.

I also checked on the HTC P3450 or its codename the HTC Elf was released for the first time in London on June 7, 2007, six months after the Apple iPhone was shown at the MacWorld on January 9, 2007.

Again, did you really think you were going to get away with these ringers?

I already knew these posted dated the Apple iPhone because I paid attention during the period. . . but I checked to get the exact dates. Good thing you are a fireman. . . Your arguments and evidence keeps getting shot down in flames.

[Swordmaker]

The difference between me and you is that I really DO NOT CARE one way or another... AND YOU CANNOT STOP CARING ABOUT A COMPANY THAT DOESN’T EVEN KNOW YOU EXIST. For me tweaking Fanboies is just lighthearted fun. I think you look at it as a never ending fight against the forces of darkness!

You obviously do care, Neidermeyer, or you would not keep posting negative comments.

[fireman15]

Make that . . . “I checked and they are all Android prototype phones. Oops. That is a phony picture. . . and not the phones that Android prototypesSamsung introduced in evidence at all.” Sorry about that.

You probably better check again because the picture is not fake. Some of those prototypes that were being developed before the iPhone was released made it to market. Oh and they were not all Android either, but I will let you do the homework on that.

I am not denigrating the original iPhone. I said in my previous post that Apple was a trendsetter and also that the design and marketing of the device was a huge success. What we have a disagreement over is what seems to be your contentions that the iPhone owes nothing to it's predecessors and that everything after the iPhone was some sort of copy. Despite any and all evidence presented you will most likely never be convinced otherwise. That has more to do with your belief in the almighty Apple than actual facts. Your efforts to ridicule me by making up stuff shows that you are a little desperate.

[fireman15]

Spec sheet from LG on the KU915 VU, shows it was released “2008, March. Released 2008”. BZZT. Sorry. Not true FAIL again.

Sorry Swordmaker, Those are the specs for the ATT version. The German version was released in 2007 and in development in 2006. I know that some of this is blasphemy to you, but not everything is a conspiracy against the Almighty Apple.

[fireman15]

I also checked on the HTC P3450 or its codename the HTC Elf was released for the first time in London on June 7, 2007, six months after the Apple iPhone was shown at the MacWorld on January 9, 2007.

The prototype iPhone may have been shown in January of 2007, but changes were being made and bugs were being worked out all the way up until it was released in June 29, 2007 three weeks after the HTC Elf. Didn't you ever read the story of Steve Jobs ordering that the screen be replaced on the iPhone with a more durable one like a month before it was actually released? I am kind of shocked because I assumed that this would be some type of Gospel to you.

[Swordmaker]

And no; you don't need the stylus to use the PPC-6700 effectively. I am glad that your iPhone is still working. How did you replace the battery? Did you send it in before Apple stopped servicing them? LOL!!!

Read what I said. . . it's still working on its original battery eight years later, and it holds 80% of its original charge. Must be a fluke, right? It was used continuously by my ex-wife since I handed it to my daughter and then she handed it to her, probably about four years ago. . . and its been working ever since. Now being used as an iPod touch, still on the original battery.

I have had friends who had those resistance touch phones and yes, you could use them sorta without the stylus. I had one myself back before the iPhone came out. But you could NOT use them accurately. "I also found that the 6700 can not be used without the stylus." — Source Technology Evangelist review of the PPC6700. That is why they came with a stylus. Note I said accurately. . . and that's why your phone has that little joy stick doohickey. . . to move the cursor around the screen because you cannot select anything with any accuracy.

The original iPhone came with 4GB, 8GBs or 16GBs. . . which shows YOU don't know what you are talking about. I had the 8GB and wished at times I had opted for the 16. The 4GB was dropped after just three months of availability as being too limiting. Sorry you are just wrong on that. I looked up the specifications on your PPC-6700 and took them from the manufacturers website specifications page. They are accurate. Again, if you think I am wrong, take it up with the maker.

The memory capacity I used for the SD card was based on a contemporary ad for additional memory attached to PPC-6700 and the capacities offered were 16MG and 32MBs. Generally phones of that period, as well as digital cameras did not handle large capacity SD cards well. If yours does, bully for it. . . I just doubt it does. A 1GB card would have been fairly expensive in 2005, IIRC. I told you what amount of RAM and storage it came with. . .

You cannot see an entire webpage and in fact, you do not get to a genuine desktop webpage with your browser on your phone. . . you get MOBILE WEB and that's it. . . and then on your small screen you scroll around even that.

Where's the GPS? Visual Voice Mail? Motion sensors? Compass? I said nothing about the photo resolution between the two phones. . . Your phone is just a feature phone. . . the reviews are really nothing to rave about. Try reading the ones i've linked to.

[Swordmaker]

You probably better check again because the picture is not fake. Some of those prototypes that were being developed before the iPhone was released made it to market. Oh and they were not all Android either, but I will let you do the homework on that.

you provide your links they aren't. If they are actual Samsung phones. . . where are the production models. They simply do not exist. . . and Samsung never produced a phone with a front facing camera until after the iPhone and Android were on the market. Sorry those have front facing cameras.

[Swordmaker]

Sorry Swordmaker, Those are the specs for the ATT version. The German version was released in 2007 and in development in 2006. I know that some of this is blasphemy to you, but not everything is a conspiracy against the Almighty Apple.

The LG CU915 VU was BUILT for AT&T which is a world wide company. Those are the accurate release dates. You are trying to dance and you don't do it very well. The LG CU915 VU was released in Canada as an AT&T exclusive. Quit lying.

A search for an LG model with the exact specifications of LG of KU915 resolves to the CU915 VU and multiple sources cite it was an AT&T exclusive released only in Canada. No Germany. An attempt to search for an LG KU915 VU with Germany in the search results in nothing. I just went through a list of every LG phone ever made in the KU series. . . and there just is no KU915 VU made for Germany in 2007, 2008 or any time. And it STILL doesn't matter because ALL of these came out in 2007 and 2008 AFTER the iPhone was announced or released.

As for your comment about Steve Jobs changing the iPhone's screen at the last minute. . . that occurred in NOVEMBER-DECEMBER 2006, in the weeks before the announcement. The President of Corning Glass was on the stage on January 9, 2007 at MacWorld with Steve Jobs for the announcement and you can see him talking about the screen!

SHEESH!

[fireman15]

You are incorrigible! The card that I purchased with the PPC-6700 was 1GB and it was upgraded later to 2GB and then to 4GB. The 1GB card did cost a fair amount of money back then. I can’t remember if I had to do a firmware update to get the 4GB card to work. There was a very active modding community right from the start which did help to extend its useful life. Many of the original members of the XDA Developers Community got their start on the PPC-6700.

I am not sure why the “technology evangelist” was not able to use the PPC-6700 without a stylus. Maybe he is a nervous guy with fat fingers who chews his nails.

I wouldn’t beat yourself up too much over not opting for the 16GB model to start with. The 16 GB model of the original iPhone was not released until February 5, 2008 about 8 months after you spent 2 days waiting in line to get yours.

Actually the PPC-6700 does have GPS built in, unfortunately to use free navigation apps not provided by Sprint it was necessary to use an inexpensive Bluetooth GPS. There were browsers available from the beginning that allowed one to view full websites. I have to admit that I normally used it tethered to a laptop for serious web browsing. It also has a “motion sensor” built in. No compass though. And I am glad that you finally started listing some of the little known extras. I have never heard that the first generation unit had a compass.

Congratulations on taking such good care of your original iPhone’s battery. I am glad that it is still getting use.

[Swordmaker]

The original iPhone did not have a 3g radio. If you want to make the argument that your 2G device that performed at about the same or lesser speed than a 56k modem as compared to a 3G device that worked at speeds comparable to DSL or cable modems of the time period... I find that quite amusing and revealing. You are getting into what most people would consider fantasy land however. Can your original iPhone tether to a computer? I don't think so! LOL!!!

EDGE did not operate at the speed of a 56K modem. Edge was 296 Kilobits per second. Not fast, but it was about six time faster than the 48bits per second typically achieved with a 56K modem. 95% of AT&T's network at that time was 2G EDGE so there was no point in selling phones that were any faster and in fact most phones were operating at 2G speeds in any case on all networks. Verizon started building out 3G and when AT&T's 3G reached 15% 3G saturation, Apple released the iPhone 3G which could finally take advantage of the faster data speeds. Until then, there really was not much point. There was nowhere near the number of customers who could use 3G speeds. 90% of the phones AT&T sold could not do 3G either. . . and neither could 90% of the phones that Verizon sold. 3G phones cost more and the carriers charged more to use the 3G signals for a while. Good thing that didn't last.

There was less than a 1% build out of 3G in 2005. In fact, when your phone was released in 2005, CDMA was only live in the San Francisco Bay area. . . whoopdeedoo.