Posted on 04/01/2015 6:15:13 AM PDT by don-o
Allen West BUMP! Mark for later...
Ping on reading this, it gets my thumbs up. Pretty sad that it’s actually Alan West who explains this matter, and not a sitting politician.
As a business owner I should have the right to refuse service to anybody for ANY reason.
Now the refused party also has the right to stand out on my sidewalk and protest my practices and hurt my bottom line by steering potential customers away. But the refused party SHOULD NOT have the ability to seek the force of government to force me to change my service policies.
Why not just rewind the film back to 1776 and start all over?
I, for one, am sick and tired of being sick and tired of these damned, infernal ‘lawmakers’.
That’s why I tell the RNC telecallers that I am a member of neither political party as I am a devout Monarchist.
nailed it.
And honestly it’s an easy argument to make and that nearly everyone “even those on the left” will GET.
1) There is a difference between what a business permits and what it promotes. Asking a Christian baker or a florist to produce a wedding cake or bouquet is asking them to promote homosexuality. Clearly this is abridging their 1st Amendment right of freedom of religion.
2) While hoping it never would come to this, one way to circumvent this debauchery is for a business owner to state as policy that any request for a product made upon the basis of any sexual preference will not be honored and that no human figurines will be part of any design.
The contrary argument is obvious. The practice of religion, any and every religion, is Constitutionally protected, but business ownership is not. The argument is if your religious beliefs disallow you to treat everyone equally, then you cannot go into business.
I do not understand. Can you explain what you are getting at?
It seems sort of simple. If the law says that in order for you to operate a licensed business, you have to treat everyone equally, but your religion requires that you discriminate, then your only option is not operating a licensed business. There is a Constitutional right to practice your religion, but I am not aware of a Constitutional right to own a business.
Something just crossed my mind. How about an employee of a private organization directed to act by his employer against his religious beliefs? Do these laws protect that person? At least to the extent of requiring "reasonable accommodation" by the business owner?
The law should protect people, not businesses.
“How about an employee of a private organization directed to act by his employer against his religious beliefs?”
___________
I had wondered the same thing, then you can think of the examples of the employee who tells his boss it’s against his religion to mop the bathroom, or against his religion to work the early morning shift the day after the Superbowl....
actually, what you do in your business is protected by the first amendment.
do you think only artists, writers, filmmakers, and journalists are protected under the freedom of expression?
whenever you use your expertise, be it painting or flipping burgers, you are expressing yourself (with the desire to be paid). that expression does not have to be religious or political... it just has to be an expression of your existence on this plane.
in the end, the first amendment is protection against the ability of others to force you to do things against your will
actually, it's enshrined in the Declaration of Independence. it would fall under 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness'... thus allowing you to provide sustenance and enrich yourself
it's at the very foundation of our country.
Your answer on #13 and 14 suggest that you attend a different law school than I do.
The principle is embedded in the foundation, but it is not reflected in the law. Paying for Obamacare may interfere with my pursuit of happiness but it will not prevent me from being fined. The framers of the Constitution explicitly stated certain rights in the first amendment, the right to do business was not one of them.
Are you proposing that the Constitution spells out what is allowed? What does the 9th Amendment mean to you?
“As a business owner I should have the right to refuse service to anybody for ANY reason.”.....
In my growing up years of so long ago, signs such as the above were posted in many businesses. This has been a law of the land for many years, why is it such a big deal now? Don’t like the answer you get from a business owner? Move on and find one to your liking.
“How about an employee of a private organization directed to act by his employer against his religious beliefs?”
Like a Muslim who is asked to serve a bacon/cheese hamburger? Or a Roman Catholic having to ring up Plan B pills? Or a Seventh Day Adventist asked to come in on Saturday?
Or the employee with a religious belief that it’s immoral to serve interracial couples.
Here’s the problem with these laws re: the gay marriage bit.
There exist people with strong religious convictions that interracial marriage is wrong, though not as many as a few decades ago. I don’t agree with them, but that’s irrelevant to the point.
I assume that for some decades now it’s been illegal for a baker with such convictions to refuse to bake a cake for a wedding of this type.
Would they be protected by the federal or state religious freedom laws? Or do we just quietly ignore their concerns because we don’t like their belief system?
Here’s the only rationale for allowing people to opt out of working same-sex weddings but not interracial weddings: Race but not “sexual orientation” should be a protected group.
I think there are excellent points to be made for this position, but I believe that particular boat has already sailed.
In fact, the very notion that some societal groups are protected and others are not is in and of itself discriminatory, by definition. In fact, that’s the whole point of such laws.
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