Posted on 12/12/2014 10:59:03 AM PST by Citizen Zed
Don't be so sure. The feds just released a scathing report against the Cleveland Police Department. FWIW, the police aren't anywhere near as bad as the report. The problem leadership has neglected community policing, and they have to react forcefully when issues emerge. I'd rather they figure out who gave that child the real-looking gun, and if the mom or the rec center director knew about it. But this one will be political.
The real concern about Cleveland is this is going to empower the thug element to impose their culture on others.
The question is, was the homicide criminal.<<<<<<<
Exactly. That’s why most investigative teams are called “Homicide”, not “Murder”.
“stated at least twice that he thought the gun was a toy.”
So why call 911 then? Makes sense to me that someone hearing that will see it that way. Why call the cops for a toy?
That's a very important point.
Sweet, right to he "racist" card. I predict that within 3 posts exchanged you would violate Godwin's Law, too.
No, my point is that by making stupid f-ing comments, like you posted, you allow the media pimps and race baiters to fan the flames; making a bad situation worse. You've taken what, from the looks of it, was an over-zealous, poorly trained, emotionally unstable policeman shooting a kid who was doing something EXTREMELY dumb and dangerous and turned it in to an "assasination", as you put it. You are so blinded by whatever that you can't even differentiate between this incident and a pre-meditate, planned and executed killing.
You want to place blame, why not blame the police department(s) that put this guy out on the streets. Or how about the parent of this 12 y/o who didn't teach him a bit of common sense. Wait, if you did that you'd have to address all the associated problems casued by liberalism; like the break up of the black family and the destruction of black culture. Or, the "everybody is capable" attitude that permiates government and liberal circles at every level. No, it's easier (read that as intellectually lazy)to just screech "He was "assasinated" becasue he was black!"
Don't expect a reply on anything you post back, becasue I gaurentee that anything you say will only reinforce my strongly held belief, created in the short amount of time I've interacted with you, that you are a bigotted race baiting moron.
Have a great weekend at you Hands Up, Don't Shoot/ I Can't Breath die in.
Homicide
The killing of one human being by another human being.
Although the term homicide is sometimes used synonymously with murder, homicide is broader in scope than murder. Murder is a form of criminal homicide; other forms of homicide might not constitute criminal acts. These homicides are regarded as justified or excusable. For example, individuals may, in a necessary act of Self-Defense, kill a person who threatens them with death or serious injury, or they may be commanded or authorized by law to kill a person who is a member of an enemy force or who has committed a serious crime. Typically, the circumstances surrounding a killing determine whether it is criminal. The intent of the killer usually determines whether a criminal homicide is classified as murder or Manslaughter and at what DEGREE.
English courts developed the body of Common Law on which U.S. jurisdictions initially relied in developing their homicide statutes. Early English common law divided homicide into two broad categories: felonious and non-felonious. Historically, the deliberate and premeditated killing of a person by another person was a felonious homicide and was classified as murder. Non-felonious homicide included justifiable homicide and excusable homicide. Although justifiable homicide was considered a crime, the offender often received a pardon. Excusable homicide was not considered a crime.
Under the early common law, murder was a felony that was punishable by death. It was defined as the unlawful killing of a person with “malice aforethought,” which was generally defined as a premeditated intent to kill. As U.S. courts and jurisdictions adopted the English common law and modified the various circumstances that constituted criminal homicide, various DEGREES of criminal homicide developed. Modern statutes generally divide criminal homicide into two broad categories: murder and manslaughter. Murder is usually further divided into the first degree, which typically involves a premeditated intent to kill, and the second degree, which typically does not involve a premeditated intent to kill. Manslaughter typically involves an unintentional killing that resulted from a person’s criminal negligence or reckless disregard for human life.
All homicides require the killing of a living person. In most states, the killing of a viable fetus is generally not considered a homicide unless the fetus is first born alive. In some states, however, this distinction is disregarded and the killing of an unborn viable fetus is classified as homicide. In other states, statutes separately classify the killing of a fetus as the crime of feticide.
Generally, the law requires that the death of the person occur within a year and a day of the fatal injury. This requirement initially reflected a difficulty in determining whether an initial injury led to a person’s death, or whether other events or circumstances intervened to cause the person’s death. As Forensic Science has developed and the difficulty in determining cause of death has diminished, many states have modified or abrogated the year-and-a-day rule.
Justifiable or Excusable Homicide
A homicide may be justifiable or excusable by the surrounding circumstances. In such cases, the homicide will not be considered a criminal act. A justifiable homicide is a homicide that is commanded or authorized by law. For instance, soldiers in a time of war may be commanded to kill enemy soldiers. Generally, such killings are considered justifiable homicide unless other circumstances suggest that they were not necessary or that they were not within the scope of the soldiers’ duty. In addition, a public official is justified in carrying out a death sentence because the execution is commanded by state or federal law.
A person is authorized to kill another person in SELF-DEFENSE or in the defense of others, but only if the person reasonably believes that the killing is absolutely necessary in order to prevent serious harm or death to himself or herself or to others. If the threatened harm can be avoided with reasonable safety, some states require the person to retreat before using Deadly Force. Most states do not require retreat if the individual is attacked or threatened in his or her home, place of employment, or place of business. In addition, some states do not require a person to retreat unless that person in some way provoked the threat of harm. Finally, police officers may use deadly force to stop or apprehend a fleeing felon, but only if the suspect is armed or has committed a crime that involved the infliction or threatened infliction of serious injury or death. A police officer may not use deadly force to apprehend or stop an individual who has committed, or is committing, a misdemeanor offense. Only certain felonies are considered in determining whether deadly force may be used to apprehend or stop a suspect. For instance, a police officer may not use deadly force to prevent the commission of Larceny unless other circumstances threaten him or other persons with imminent serious injury or death.
Excusable homicide is sometimes distinguished from justifiable homicide on the basis that it involves some fault on the part of the person who ultimately uses deadly force. For instance, if a person provokes a fight and subsequently withdraws from it but, out of necessity and in self-defense, ultimately kills the other person, the homicide is sometimes classified as excusable, rather than justifiable. Generally, however, the distinction between justifiable homicide and excusable homicide has largely disappeared, and only the term justifiable homicide is widely used.
More likely to confuse the mob.
It was clearly a homicide. One person killed another person, that is the very definition of homicide.
Many people hear “homicide” and think “murder”, but homicides can be accidential, negligent, suicide, justified, manslaughter, or murder.
The caller was so sure it was a toy that she called the cops.... Brilliant
Darn good thoughts TP. Check out, (if you have not already), the shooter LEO’s past history in regards to firearms. You will not believe it. This guy should have been working at a job no more dangerous than folding towels.
I watched the video several times.
The cop exited the car & fired in less than 2 seconds. He took no time for a warning. He took no time to assess the situation. I doubt he had time to speak. Basically, he jumped out of the car & started firing.
It looks like murder to me.
I wonder if he saw the surveillance video I found after I posted this thread. Go back a few replies and watch the youtube clip I provided. Perhaps the police saw it before the cops arrived since it was at a public park? Note the person at the picnic table that later leaves after the boy points his toy gun at a person walking the path. I believe this video was just released.
The caller didn’t run for cover, and just kept watching the kid. The caller stated that the caller thought it was probably a toy.
How you get from that to “blast away” is a mystery.
Perhaps the caller thought that the cop would say: "Hey kid, cut that out," rather than blowing the kid away.
Oddly, not of the people in the park acted as if it were a real gun. Only the "highly trained" cops who shot first and asked questions later were confused.
Although the callers to 911 said they thought it might be a toy, the 911 dispatch did not mention that to the cops. Just reports of a person with a gun.
So the cops are rolling up with that in their mind - a real gun.
Right after the shooting one of the cops radios in for an ambulance, and says the guy down is about 20-years old.
I think the eye sees what the brain is prepared for it to see (a man with a gun). Plus - if the child is on the big size...
But it does seem that everything happened pretty quickly when it perhaps didn’t need to. That - and better thinking and training by everyone. (The idiot kid. The 911 dispatcher not relaying the attitude of the caller that it was probably a toy), and maybe the cops coming up slowler and assess the situation first and seeing that the guy wasn’t in an active shooting.
Heck, it could have been some guy with a legal concealed weapon that “showed”, some nanny-state liberal sees it and freaks out and calls 911. And makes up a story. I think there is a group that is doing that - making up wild stories about a legal carrier “waving around his gun and yelling” to get them in trouble.
Then you get two cops, one yelling “hands up” and the other yelling “drop the gun”. (Note - if your gun is on your hip - I would just stick with the “hands up” position and hope for the best.)
Everyone should read the article at your link.
For all of you who think this is justifiable homicide, I have questions:
In states with open/concealed carry, what will prevent police from shooting anyone carrying a visible weapon, perhaps holding their weapon, checking the safety, inspecting the gun for proper operation, loading it, or having dropped the gun, is picking it up? Does open/concealed carry mean you may never handle your gun in a public place?
If it is proper police procedure to arrive at a POTENTIAL crime scene & immediately start shooting without the slightest idea that a crime is being committed, then ANYONE holding any dark object at night in public is a justifiable target of police. Basically, don’t go out at night & if you do, wear a bright colored shirt that says “I am unarmed & harmless”. Oh, & carry nothing in your hands - ever.
Who among us does not know that kids can be big these days, or that they may have toy guns & play with them in public? What kid has never modified their toys to make them cooler or more scary?
Who would shoot someone without first challenging them to drop their weapon?
By approving the actions of this officer, aren’t you giving in to the idea that there should be no toy guns, that children should have no familiarity with guns, a tactic to disarm Americans by the gun grabbers?
Do you really want police to have the right to initiate lethal violence where no violence has yet occurred?
Because she could tell by looking at it that it wasn't a real gun, or because she couldn't fathom the idea that a kid would be wandering around the park pointing a real gun at people?
Important distinction and I believe the latter is true.
Watched the video.
Yes. there were other people there. But the caller wasn’t concerned enough to leave until after calling police.
The actions of the “gun” holder are the actions of a child or a mentally disabled person. Yet the passerby person didn’t turn around & leave. They continued on their way, which suggests they recognized a child with a toy.
An immutable fact is that there will always be children playing in public, & their play will at times be irrational & seemingly dangerous; their toys are imitations of real things, be they guns, knives, hammers, screwdrivers.....
Given that in any adult confrontation with a child, it is the adult who must comport themselves properly, because the child, by definition, cannot or will not necessarily do so; the child may not even realize a confrontation exists.
This officer did not comport himself properly & as a result, he murdered an unarmed child.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.