Posted on 09/30/2014 9:23:07 AM PDT by Utilizer
If you ask the people who run America's electric utilities what keeps them up at night, a surprising number will say solar power. Specifically, rooftop solar.
That seems bizarre at first. Solar power provides just 0.4 percent of electricity in the United States — a minuscule amount. Why would anyone care?
But utilities see things differently. As solar technology gets dramatically cheaper, tens of thousands of Americans are putting photovoltaic panels up on their roofs, generating their own power. At the same time, 43 states and Washington DC have "net metering" laws that allow solar-powered households to sell their excess electricity back to the grid at retail prices.
That's a genuine problem for utilities. All these solar households are now buying less and less electricity, but the utilities still have to manage the costs of connecting them to the grid. Indeed, a new study from Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory argues that, without policy changes, this trend could soon put utilities in dire financial straits. If rooftop solar were to grab 10 percent of the market over the next decade, utility earnings could decline as much as 41 percent.
(Excerpt) Read more at vox.com ...
The only way to “win” would be to go off-grid, but that means sacrificing some comfort and convenience in order to keep the cost of the system within any reasonable hope of ROI or approximation of affordable, given present technology.
NC doesn’t allow battery storage systems for on-grid houses with solar. My thought was to use it for emergency backup power, but that’s only possible with a totally separate solar and storage system. For instance, setting up a freestanding garage with solar power and battery storage, or having solar panels and batteries on a trailer like a generator. I believe there are actually units sold as solar generators that are set up in this manner, so NC must not be the only state with such a restriction.
Do you see a significant rise in property taxes with the addition of the solar panels? This is partly the reason I’m hesitant to look into it.
My peak bill was $568, just last month. It cost about $2500 to run 1 unit at 76F and 1 unit at 83F for the 5 summer months. Do you think solar would pay off if I stay in this house for another 6 years? Do buyers pay more for a house with solar?
with 12 175 watt panels and 8 golf cart 6 volt batteries on a 24 volt system, 240v inverter,charge controller... I can LIVE in my campground, full size fridge, washer dryer, microwave, coffee pot, satellite tv lights.... It also runs my 385ft 240volt well. During the day is no problem but at night one must conserve. If I ever get off my ass and get 8 more batteries I could make it easy. Now this will NOT run AC of any kind long enough to make a difference., heat is no problem though.
Coffee and Microwave use A LOT of power, way more than any other appliance.,
Short history
http://thoriummsr.com/intro/facts-about-thorium-molten-salt-reactors/
all they did was TURN it OFF when they decided to use Uranium Based Nuclear Power. If you search for Thorium Reactors you will find that The rest of the world is already on the fast track PRODUCING them. Unfortunately nobody seems to have enough vision YET to produce a Small refrigerator sized one to Power an Individual Home. The technology is already proven and it works just dandy.
The biggest problem is If the People ever get their hands on an Abundant and Cheap supply of Energy it will only lead to more demands of Freedom and Liberty, which is Bad for Government, and Government will do everything possible to stymie the operation. see “coal”
I have not seen that in AZ. In addition, the improvement made to property with solar cannot be taxed at sale time. They are pulling out all the stops to make solar very attractive. Have you had an analysis of your current electric bill to determine your needs and savings? I would need a full year of cost and kWh usage data, your current location and house facings. Contact me by private if you want more help, but yes under 6 year payback is not uncommon. Buyers do pay more for an owned unit that becomes theirs, but not so much with a leased unit they have to assume.
They may be buying less, but what are the magnitudes?
Is it the same as going from all 100 watt bulbs to 60 watt bulbs? From moving the thermostat from 70 degrees to 72 degrees? Turning off lights in unused rooms?
The utilities still have to connect these homes to the grid, too.
-PJ
“it reduces the utility power generation needed during a portion of the system’s peak load.”
Only when peak load is for cooling, not heating.
“laws that force the utility to buy at retail are simply subsidizing people who have installed solar by forcing the utility to raise everyone else’s rates.”
There is the nub. Just set a realistic price structure.
Close, but it’s worse.
A more accurate analogy would be if the landline and mobile phone user got a reduction in his landline cost whenever he used his mobile phone.
. . . and that is a good thing in summer when the peak load is air conditioning. But the critical issue is installed peak capacity requirement. But if you require power for air-conditioning when the sun isn’t shining, the generating capacity required for that capability defines the peak generating capacity required, which drives the capital cost of that capacity.The upshot is that the more peak watts you require, and the less often you actually use it, the more expensive your peak power will be to the utility - and thus to yourself, late or soon.
The government and greens are happy to push solar precisely because it doesn’t work (at least not cost effectively). The funny thing is that if “everyone” starts installing solar power the pricing will come down on everything related including batteries. Once that happens solar could actually be a viable replacement for grid power. What then would the fedscum and greens do to stop it?
Scam is growing so fast
As with electric cars, I couldn’t care less about the “green” aspect of it. If it actually is, great. But, that’s not the reason I’m interested. I’m interested in the potential self-sufficiency in the event of a loss of grid power, and I’m interested in insulating myself from what looks to be much more costly electricity coming down the pike by regulatory design. Make no mistake, a properly configured and installed solar system “works” but there are factors leading to possible brownouts such as a lengthy series of overcast days. The panels themselves can fail. And, despite the fact that cost of these panels has dropped considerably, it’s still very dicey to make it pay out. Those who are not concerned about payout have led the way for political and philosophical reasons with which I do not agree, but I’m not going to throw the potential benefit for my own political and philosophical reasons out the window because of it.
Gas Turbines can answer the peak power problem. While the capacity has to be there, you don’t really pay for it until you need it.
Thanks for posting. Lots of interesting info.
My case, I am thinking of doing the same thing, but so far if I can get past the zoning restrictions I only have room for about three or four regular sized solar panels, then I have to find a propane-fueled emergency generator that accepts the small tanks like you see on an outdoor grill. That still means I need to rely on the utility company for the majority of power needs since solar really does not provide all that much energy even on the sunniest days.
Add in the cost of the panels themselves, the price of the total number of batteries needed, and the cost for installing everything and I am not certain it is all that feasible yet.
My campsite is on the lee side of a hill, surrounded by many trees and up in the mountains. On a typical summer day, I get a few hours of direct sunlight, but in the middle of winter not much at all. Even if I could afford the price of 12 panels and the batteries required, I do not have the space available to properly install and maintain them.
Plus with the constant drain of cooling (A/C) in the height of summer, and heating in the middle of winter especially when it snows for days on end here, I do not think I will be able to totally separate from the mains supply for most needs, unfortunately.
Then add in the equipment needed for a two-way link to connect with the internet by radio, and having to rely on a laptop only for its limited energy requirements, and you soon will come to the same conclusion I did: that it is not yet ready for primetime.
I did some napkin calculations years back and came to the conclusion that solar cells would have to be about 80% efficient to really be cost-effective. (Initial price, maintenance, cell-lifetime, etc.)
It's probably a little on the high side.
The funny thing is that if “everyone” starts installing solar power the pricing will come down on everything related including batteries. Once that happens solar could actually be a viable replacement for grid power. What then would the fedscum and greens do to stop it?
The same thing they always do: add more regulations.
Probably requiring certified technicians to do any work at all on them, at the very least.
Eliminate the subsidies and there won’t be any more solar BS!!
It’s not simply utilities. Using spot lighting instead of room-filling light fixtures, going from 100W incandescent bulbs to 40W Florescent ones, then 23W ones, then moving to 8W LED bulbs (or 16W even) makes a huge difference.
Rather like noticing the difference when you notice if you turn off the telly when you are not really interested in watching or when you need to go into another room for a bit instead of leaving it running, many little changes can make a huge difference in the total impact done compared to what you were previously used to.
Many little things add up over time to make a rather substantial difference if you simply apply certain considerations consistently over a period of time.
And if all it costs you is a bit of effort now and again, why not?
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