Posted on 08/08/2014 1:36:04 PM PDT by Mariner
And there you go lying again. I never said what you saw with your own eyes was a lie. I said you were using the wrong words to describe what you saw with your own eyes, and you were perpetuating the lies of a pimp.
Sticking to the actual definition of words isn’t technobabble, it’s being honest. Words have meaning, if you want them to mean something else use different words. If you need words to mean something else you’re the one pretending to have a point, if you actually had a point you could stick to the actual definition of words. If you think the truth is a stupid dodge then you admit to being a liar.
So now that we’re both in complete agreement have fun.
” I do not know if Marijuana constitutes a grave threat to our society or not. If it does, it will likely be indirectly through it’s effects as a gateway drug or by inducing indolence. There is a chance that nothing of great consequence will happen.”
So far nothing of great consequence has happened and people have been smoking weed as long I’ve been alive.
“About Crack and Meth i’m pretty sure. Allow that stuff and things will go for us much the way they went for China with Opium.The problem is, they cannot be separated in terms of Libertarian philosophy. If people have a right to smoke pot, they also have a right to smoke meth or crack or heroin.”
I consider my personal philosophy pretty Libertarian but I don’t think people have the right to do anything they feel like.
That’s why there are laws, sadly plenty of laws tend to be idiotic.
I remember years ago I was passing thru Arkansas and wasn’t able to buy some item like scotch tape on Sunday because of the existing blue laws.
I think for a lot of people there’s still some leftover moral question regarding weed.
I also think that’s an uninformed moral question.
Do some people overdo it? Sure, and people also overdo video games, and fast food cheeseburgers.
I'm sure a little water in the boat won't hurt anything. I believe water has been getting into boats for as long as I can remember. It's not like anything can happen if we get to a certain point.
By the way, i've read that people receiving government benefits now exceeds the population of citizens paying taxes. No worries there.
Do some people overdo it? Sure, and people also overdo video games, and fast food cheeseburgers.
The question is not "do some people overdo it?" The question is "Will a significant enough percentage of the population over do it?" "Will the percentage that causes us to reach a critical point change with economic conditions?"
A lot of people see the world as simple. I see it as a series of very complex interacting and often non-linear models. Sometimes you pull out or add a piece here and there, and the consequences end up being a LOT different from what you thought would happen.
I claim the ability, not the right. Me declaring you to be reasonable will not make you reasonable. Actually, i'm thinking not much of anything will make you reasonable.
“By the way, i’ve read that people receiving government benefits now exceeds the population of citizens paying taxes. No worries there.A lot of people see the world as simple. I see it as a series of very complex interacting and often non-linear models. Sometimes you pull out or add a piece here and there, and the consequences end up being a LOT different from what you thought would happen.”
Not sure what this has to do with the pot laws, unless it’s like I suspect and the pot issue is a moral issue for you and you’re equating pot use with welfare abuse.
I don’t smoke pot. I’ve tried it of course but never developed a taste for it. Oddly enough I get hassled by LEOs way more than my share. I do have long hair and as I was told by one LEO after being searched and having the dog sniff all around my car “Well, I Can’t find it, but I know you have to have some dope in here somewhere.”
You seem to be doing that same sort of thing.
You know dope is bad. In your earlier posts to me you were lumping grass in with heroin and meth. Here you seem to be trying to make a case that pot causes people to be on welfare.
As far as seeing the world as simple or complex.
You seem to be painting a pretty large and diverse group with a very broad and limited brush.
You also seem to be making it more complex than it really is to support your position that weed is bad so there should be a law.
My grandmother hated Rock & roll and insisted til the day she died that it corrupted kids. Got them to drink and take drugs and and grow their hair long. In other words engage in behavior she didn’t approve of.
She used to always say she wished they’d outlaw it.
Not sure what this has to do with the pot laws, unless it’s like I suspect and the pot issue is a moral issue for you and you’re equating pot use with welfare abuse.
There is certainly a lot of overlap between pot users and welfare at the bottom end of the scale.
You also seem to be making it more complex than it really is to support your position that weed is bad so there should be a law.
I'm saying that the philosophical arguments which justify it's legalization do not restrict themselves to just pot. If you embrace those arguments (that smoking it is a right) you open Pandora box to all the rest as well.
You may think you are pulling down one small Chesterton fence.(pot) You are not. You are pulling down a very large and important Chesterton fence (all other drugs) because it is attached to that small one.
Alcohol and tobacco bring death and misery to people.
How many people die from Alcohol and how many people die from Tobacco?
According to the CDC (http://wonder.cdc.gov/ucd-icd10.html) in 2011, 2,284 Americans died from the direct cause of "poisoning by and exposure to alcohol." There appears to be no corresponding separate category for tobacco - nor for marijuana, perhaps related to the fact that the median lethal dose for THC is the equivalent of about 240 joints.
Then there's the practical argument that marijuana prohibition seems to be failing in pretty much the same ways that alcohol Prohibition failed.
Your number is way too small. You left out the people killed by drunk drivers. You know, the innocent people which Libertarian philosophy says not to harm.
Also deaths from tobacco are not all that hard to find, but most such people have only harmed themselves. The only exceptions would be the fires started by people who smoke. There is probably a significant number of people killed by such fires, but it is probably very difficult to break it out of the other data.
Dude, society in general is failing. You will soon see the prohibition against robbery and murder failing as well.
Look around you. It is already happening.
Your observation is a symptom of a larger disease, not a cause for celebration. There is a reason why it is coming along at the same time as the nation elects an idiot, accepts Gay Marriage, and continuous onward towards Fiscal collapse. It's because society has become too childish, and the consequences of it will not be long delayed.
Alcohol and tobacco bring death and misery to people.
How many people die from Alcohol and how many people die from Tobacco?
According to the CDC (http://wonder.cdc.gov/ucd-icd10.html) in 2011, 2,284 Americans died from the direct cause of "poisoning by and exposure to alcohol."
Your number is way too small. You left out the people killed by drunk drivers.
You never defined "die from alcohol." I'm on board with including those people.
You know, the innocent people which Libertarian philosophy says not to harm.
I'm not sure what you're saying here. Are you claiming that "Libertarian philosophy" regards drunk drivers as "innocent people not to harm"? Or if by "innocent people" you meant the victims, then yes, they should not have been harmed, and they were wronged by the drunk drivers - but they were wronged by the legality of alcohol no more than by the legality of cars.
And let's not forget the subject of this thread: "Since marijuana legalization, highway fatalities in Colorado are at near-historic lows."
Dude, society in general is failing. You will soon see the prohibition against robbery and murder failing as well.
Time will tell. At this time, two-thirds of murders are solved - a rate orders of magnitude larger than anything marijuana prohibition can claim.
Look around you. It is already happening.
Are robbery and murder happening more often or being less often solved?
Your observation is a symptom of a larger disease, not a cause for celebration.
Who's celebrating? I'm pointing out a fact - as opposed to the utopian fantasies of prohibitionists.
“There is certainly a lot of overlap between pot users and welfare at the bottom end of the scale.”
There’s also a lot of overlap between beer, and cigarettes, and xbox, and fastfood cheeseburgers, with welfare at the bottom end of the scale.
Pot doesn’t make anybody do anything, or not do anything. Neither does beer, cigarettes, xbox, or cheeseburgers.
“You may think you are pulling down one small Chesterton fence.(pot) You are not. You are pulling down a very large and important Chesterton fence (all other drugs) because it is attached to that small one.”
Pot is pot. It’s not heroin, or meth.
As near as I can tell there isn’t any realistic push to get those things legalized.
It also seems to me that the bigger Chesterson Fence would be passing freedom killing laws that turn pretty typical citizens into criminals just to prevent them from doing something you morally disagree with.
“Then there’s the practical argument that marijuana prohibition seems to be failing in pretty much the same ways that alcohol Prohibition failed.”
Of course it’s going to fail. The reality is that typical weed use isn’t any more harmful than any of the other acceptable vices.
Societal attitudes are now reflecting that.
Fatal crashes involving drivers who recently used marijuana doubled in Washington after the state legalized the drug,” the AAA reports.
“The significant increase in fatal crashes involving marijuana is alarming,” said Peter Kissinger, AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety CEO, adding that “Washington serves as an eye-opening case study for what other states may experience with road safety after legalizing the drug.”
http://newsroom.aaa.com/2016/05/fatal-road-crashes-involving-marijuana-double-state-legalizes-drug/
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